Stopping The Strategic Air Offensive

agors · Post by **agors** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 12:07 am

Hi again -

often discussed, never finished. So let's continue and discuss my thesis.

If the German Luftwaffe were more successful in defending than it was, the british-american air strikes against Germany would have been stopped. Historically there were some points (e.g. the desastrous Schweinfurt raid in 1943) where the allied leaders thought about stopping because the morale of their crews were completly down.

So if you play the german side and you can shoot down let's say five times more planes than you loose than you should succeed - actually. But in the game every week another hundreds of planes were sent over Europe. That's right for the industrial output but not for the reservoir of men.

What do you think? Am I right? Than this point should be changed. The only way in the game is to build up a good jet fighter defensive. So no plane at all can invade.

Greetings,
Andreas

Denniss · Post by **Denniss** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 9:11 pm

With excessive bomber losses their attacks should be stopped for two turns in order of regrouping or restoring morale

JagdFlanker · Post by **JagdFlanker** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 9:34 pm

Can you control the USAF in any way? I tried changing their mission to training once to try to make them stronger, but it didn't do anything.

Forward_March · Post by **Forward_March** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 12:09 pm

In my 43' game against Brutus, I was able to virtually render the USAAF impotent until mid-late 44.

...here's what I did
...Quit building the Bf-109
...Built tons of Focke-wulfs
...built only 100 Fw-190F's
...as the game converted Stuka units to Fw-190F, I changed them to 190 A's...
...Built up almost every fighter unit to 150 planes, keeping experience at about 76%. Yes, I flew lots of missions while the Red airforce rebuilt itself.

44' brought on increasing pressure by the USAAF. I'm thinking the arrival of the P-51 brought about huge changes. Just at the same time, Brutus brought in many Red air force units with huge sizes.

It's now the fall rainy/snowy period of 44'....turn 71 of the game. Germany is no longer producing bombers, and many German bomber units have changed over to mixed bomber and Sm-81 (Oh, the horror!)

Two types of plane are being produced by Germany now...the me-262 and the Fw-190 D. The lion's share of Germany's fighter wings can boast about 50 aircraft, while many have less, and too few have more.

With the front running in the down the 1941 line, the USAAF is just now starting to break through, having reduced heavy industry to 80 this turn. Fighter experience is hovering in the 60's with only a few units boasting higher. They are small units.

Kesselring fell ill in 43...and has yet to return. Guderian was killed in an airstrike much earlier. The Allies are fighting in Austria, and nearing the Westwall. ...defeat is imminent.

JagdFlanker · Post by **JagdFlanker** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 4:23 am

Well, i'v only made it to late '42 in one game so far so all i could do is take a guess at what's expected, but i figured the best way must be fw190a all the way until 7/44, then every air factory possible making me262. now here's a question - being more than double the cost AND your factories getting nailed, can you put up any kind of decent production of me262's? is it better to perhaps have a mix of fw190d9 to kill the escorts and fw190a's to kill bombers? i don't know, that huge me262 cannon seems to me worth the price of admission! but can you build more than a few me262's, or are you playing a numbers game with losses?

K62_ · Post by **K62_** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 4:43 am

Try this:

- start '44 campaign against computer
- switch all your air production to Me262 and put all your air force on training

With all the bombing, you will be producing about 120 Me262 every turn. Switch 2 air groups with 100+ a/c to the Me262 as soon as you have the planes (6-7 turns into the game) and set them on CAP in Germany.

The results are worth watching, believe me

Forward_March · Post by **Forward_March** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:15 pm

I did this in the 44 scenario. And for the warm weather it worked...the USAAF was held at bay. But then the rain comes and most German fighters are grounded...industry and oil plummetted. Crap, I think. Perhaps the designers thought that Germany didn't have the technology to pave runways. It's called guaranteeing Germany loses.
The problem in my current 43 game is that I now have many little squadrons....with correspondingly low experience. I think that for the Germans to do anything, they have to start building their fighter units to 250 each, and still have a large reserve of Fw-190's.... So many so that losses are easily replaced each turn with little loss in experience. My highest experienced unit is a Rumanian squadron that never gave up their Gustavs....it can only field 38 planes.
I honestly thought that having as many planes as I did with high exp that I had a chance....I was wrong.

DanishPosh · Post by **DanishPosh** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:02 pm

As my 1941 campaign as a German never last longer than june 42 I dont have much experience with this deal

JagdFlanker · Post by **JagdFlanker** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 3:50 am

I wouldn't think there would be any way of getting 250 aircraft per wing, is there? Wouldn't you have to not use the wing for at least a year to have even a small chance?

Out of curiosity, if you have a pile of wings in OKH and more in OKW, all on CAP, and the bombers attack Berlin, do both HQ's dispatch their fighters? Or the closest? I think in an old read.me it said it was the closest, but would that have changed?

Denniss · Post by **Denniss** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 2:01 am

From my experience fighters come from the closest HQ even if it has only one or two fighter groups while in the HQ nearby 10 groups waiting for nothing

You need to have 1000+ aircraft of the same type in pool for a chance of 250 planes per Unit .
If dropping below 1000 aircraft it might be possible that losses in these 250+ units are replaced only up to normal 200+ planes

Forward_March · Post by **Forward_March** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 2:08 am

Unfortunately, only the fighters from one HQ will engage. And later when there are multiple raids coming in, the same one may do it more than once.
The programming of the weather effect on fighter CAP is my biggest bone of contention.

I think it quite possible for the Germans to build up the fighter units to 250. I've seen the AI do it after Ivan has shattered all it's fighter units at the front (I'd at one time set the AI against the AI for the whole war). I'm trying it now. The Sov's being quite feeble in the air in 41-42 is the time to do it, though. Later is too late.

So, on with the Grand experiment.

P.S. Does the Me-410 continue to do cap until the end of the war? I've never built them before, concentrating on the FW-190.

Denniss · Post by **Denniss** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 3:35 pm

Me-410 :
44 yes
45 ?!?