OT: Corona virus

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


After recent events, my interest was taken with the decision making at the top levels of US government.

From this, and the recent interaction between Trump and Dr Brix, I am of the opinion that Fauci, Brix (and likely anyone else involved in the process) would say the sky is green if it kept Trump on side.

Trump's comments (well, tweets) on the subject are in the public domain.

If you read those comments as the comments of a leader that takes the situation and the advice seriously, then perhaps get your eyes tested.

I understand and agree that is a possibility, but I don't think so. For one thing, I don't think any such thing would keep Trump on side.

Trump is quite unusual, that's for sure. His manner of lashing out is probably not unique among US Presidents (thinking of Andrew Jackson for one example), but now we have Twitter, etc.

I think there is some strong evidence in Trump's past behaviour, particularly with regard to James Comey and the winder context of Trump's request for loyalty.

It suggests than official has to strike the balance between loyalty (in whatever form that is) to Trump and the demands of the role. It would be interesting to know how those considerations are balanced.

Unusual is certainly a diplomatic way of framing it.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

They support him for diverse, disparate reasons, ranging from the Supreme Court to deeply held Pro-Life convictions to opposition to liberal ideologies to a distaste for the smug eliteness that too often permeates the left ("Deplorables," etc.).

Let's use precise language: it would be more accurate to write that they support him to use the Supreme Court to roll back the power of federal agencies to regulate air/water standards, deny women their reproductive rights and a general desire to "own the libs" following years of frustration and establishment politics.

Then there's the underlying theme of racism that has ran through the Republican party for the past few years.

Yes, the US right has lofty and noble aspirations indeed.

[Lowpe]

A few anecdotal pieces on real estate:

I just got off the phone with a police officer from a nearby community where I once owned commercial real estate. We finished our business, and got to talking, and I asked how commercial robbery was doing...he replied off the charts.

I know a lot of people that invested in real estate, buy a twin and rent it out for example. Very common. Leverage is usually high with rents covering the mortgage and deferred maintenance and even utilities. Well, it seems that eviction processes that started prior to covid are on indefinite hold, and the one owner I talked to fears it will be a 2 year process to evict a deadbeat renter. He is worried he will have to take early withdraws from his retirement savings to keep the mortgage or sell the property at a substantial loss.

Just anecdotal conversations.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Mind_Messing offers the kind of contemptuous analysis that we've discussed the past week or so. He believes in his positions passionately but expresses himself in a manner that is off-putting ("get your eyes tested" and many, many other statements) to those Americans who support Trump. They support him for diverse, disparate reasons, ranging from the Supreme Court to deeply held Pro-Life convictions to opposition to liberal ideologies to a distaste for the smug eliteness that too often permeates the left ("Deplorables," etc.). If the left really wants to beat Trump, they'd be better served by not continuously overplaying their hands, driving swing voters and swing states to the Red. Democrat strategist James Carville had it exactly right in February, as quoted in here the middle of last week. Smugness and contemptuousness are remarkably irritating.

This is not about one person or their manner of addressing other people. There is a persistent labelling and insulting culture from a number of people who contribute to this thread and who aren't called to account for their specific words. You're calling out one person and not others due to your beliefs rather than the level of what you term "contemptuous analysis." I won't say get them tested, I'll just say open them up.

In the past 30-40 pages, this type of posting has grown worse as perceived divides have widened. There have been a number of blatantly racist comments, political name-calling, personal insults, and other divisive commentary.

I don't really care what someone says about me on this forum, but I will defend others. I will defend ideas and science at times, and I won't apologise for that.

I won't (and have not) made racist comments, called out any person for their beliefs in an intentionally insulting manner, and I won't hold grudges even against the worst repeat antagonists. I also won't humorously belittle someone's opinion for the benefit of my position and my small crew of likes-minded buddies.

I believe critique is essential to improving our countries and society in general and I'll continue to provide that from an optimistic perspective. Sometimes that becomes a battle, but it doesn't have to be personal.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Let's use precise language: it would be more accurate to write that they support him to use the Supreme Court to roll back the power of federal agencies to regulate air/water standards, deny women their reproductive rights and a general desire to "own the libs" following years of frustration and establishment politics.

Then there's the underlying theme of racism that has ran through the Republican party for the past few years.

Yes, the US right has lofty and noble aspirations indeed.

Wow. I admit I don't know Trump personally. The closest I ever was to him, was once in the 1980's I was one hole behind him on a golf course. But I know plenty of people that do in the business world. He has an enviable record of hiring minorities and putting women in charge and compensating them very highly. Before he ran for President he received accolades and awards for it from those communities.

I have never seen overt racism in my business life exhibited by a business. I am not saying it doesn't happen. Once, in the 80's I heard of a local police officer refusing to give mouth to mouth to an accident victim, in about six months that officer was fired. Of course I have heard stories of refusal to seat people in a restaurant, but I have also heard about the same number of stories discriminating against police officers.

I am old enough to remember what real pollution looked like the US. You could walk on Lake Erie, coke mills leaving a dusting on cars and window sills. Lead gasoline and lead paint. Strip mining. I feel bad for countries like China, Indonesia and India, you must really dislike them.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Let's use precise language: it would be more accurate to write that they support him to use the Supreme Court to roll back the power of federal agencies to regulate air/water standards, deny women their reproductive rights and a general desire to "own the libs" following years of frustration and establishment politics.

Then there's the underlying theme of racism that has ran through the Republican party for the past few years.

Yes, the US right has lofty and noble aspirations indeed.

Wow. I admit I don't know Trump personally. The closest I ever was to him, was once in the 1980's I was one hole behind him on a golf course. But I know plenty of people that do in the business world. He has an enviable record of hiring minorities and putting women in charge and compensating them very highly. Before he ran for President he received accolades and awards for it from those communities.

I have never seen overt racism in my business life exhibited by a business. I am not saying it doesn't happen. Once, in the 80's I heard of a local police officer refusing to give mouth to mouth to an accident victim, in about six months that officer was fired. Of course I have heard stories of refusal to seat people in a restaurant, but I have also heard about the same number of stories discriminating against police officers.

I am old enough to remember what real pollution looked like the US. You could walk on Lake Erie, coke mills leaving a dusting on cars and window sills. Lead gasoline and lead paint. Strip mining. I feel bad for countries like China, Indonesia and India, you must really dislike them.

Don't forget the river that caught on fire and burned for three days. The fire could not be put out. The US has the toughest environmental laws. That is one reason why so many factories shut down and the jobs went somewhere else.

As far as I know, for womens reproductive rights, they don't sterilize them unless they want to be sterilized.

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: fcooke

My fish still drink like fish.....and a good source of 'supply' should it get to that [:D]

There are two movies scenes, both involving Humphrey Bogart, which I find very relevant to this.

1. The Maltese Falcon. The "Fat Man" offers Sam Spade a drink. When the offer is accepted the "Fat Man" says with approval "Good. Never trust a man who doesn't drink".

2. The Big Sleep. Philip Marlowe is in the hothouse with the Colonel. Marlowe accepts a drink and is looked on enviously by the Colonel who explains that nowadays he drinks vicariously.

Absolutely no Shirley Temples involved in either scene, just neat spirit, bourbon IIRC. Ah those were the days when Americans drank bourbon neat, not the hipster craft beers in Irish pubs of today, pre lockdown of course.

Alfred

Hammett and Chandler. LA vs San Francisco. I think I liked the Continental Op best, short and pudgy for the time. Of course, you can't talk drinking without mentioning the Thin Man. Staggering amounts of drinking.[:)]

I liked Bond in this clip: Bond

Now that's no Shirley Temple - lol.

[fabertong]

I did ask Bill, our moderator, to have a look at this thread.

I suspect he may not have had time.....but I think it is a shame that this thread has become more than somewhat politically toxic.

I joined this community 16 years ago......it has made me laugh, enlightened me, entertained me...and even occasionally moved me...... from people from all countries/backgrounds/creeds/etc......but always people passionate about WitP.

The recent turn this thread has taken means I feel I must step away from the WitP family......except perhaps to look for future opponents.

Keep safe......be kind to each other.

This Penguin has to fly......bugger....I'm flightless!

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: obvert


There are no digs. The personnel stuff is because I'm fed up with the BS you and others throw ardour at anyone who presents something slightly different than your world view, and is met with outrage without any foundation in fact. My default is to look widely for expert advice, objective information and base my posts on the best science has to offer in the moment. There are no politics in that, no agenda, just trying to understand.

This is objective information I'm getting from sources that are verified. How do you explain what Fauci said in this interview?

Have a look. One week to have 60% less deaths in this phase. Two weeks earlier to have 90% less. Even if there is some error margin in those projections, I'd certainly take 40-50% less deaths. Wouldn't you?

I posted Fauci's own comments quite a while back. CNN asked a hypothetical question, then used his answer far, far out of context. You cite an NYT article which compounds the same untruth. When one lies and the other swears to it, well, I guess you are right - that's verified!

You present the hypothetical as though fact. I presented that which has actually happened and you call it "without any foundation in fact".

Bye.

I did use those as examples, but it's easy to find the interview where he is responding to the NY Times article and confirms recommendations were given in late Feb.

Fauci does not deny when asked that he recommended social distancing guidelines in late February. He says they made a health recommendation. "Sometimes it's taken, sometimes it's not."

He was clearly saying the Science team had made a recommendation.

This is a larger version of the original quoted interview. Here is the interview:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/12/poli ... index.html

By the third week of February, advisers had drafted a list of measures they believed would soon be necessary, like school closures, sports and concert cancellations and stay-at-home orders, but the president did not embrace them until mid-March.

Dr. Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984, said on Sunday that earlier imposition of such policies would have made a difference.

“I mean, obviously, you could logically say that if you had a process that was ongoing and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives,” he said on “State of the Union” on CNN. “Obviously, no one is going to deny that. But what goes into those kinds of decisions is complicated. But you’re right. Obviously, if we had, right from the very beginning, shut everything down, it may have been a little bit different. But there was a lot of pushback about shutting things down.”

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: fabertong

I did ask Bill, our moderator, to have a look at this thread.

I suspect he may not have had time.....but I think it is a shame that this thread has become more than somewhat politically toxic.

I joined this community 16 years ago......it has made me laugh, enlightened me, entertained me...and even occasionally moved me...... from people from all countries/backgrounds/creeds/etc......but always people passionate about WitP.

The recent turn this thread has taken means I feel I must step away from the WitP family......except perhaps to look for future opponents.

Keep safe......be kind to each other.

This Penguin has to fly......bugger....I'm flightless!

If I may be so bold:

Don't walk away from the community - just step away from this thread/topic. There are a lot of great AARs - heck - you could start another! And there are many threads with members asking questions about how different components of the game work. Step in and offer your advice.

You yourself have provided great discussion and much fun in past threads as we've watched your AARs and had opportunity to follow along with your exploits. Show us that community experience you recall so fondly in your walk and in your talk. Rolemodel for us and I suspect many will strive to emulate.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: fabertong

I did ask Bill, our moderator, to have a look at this thread.

I suspect he may not have had time.....but I think it is a shame that this thread has become more than somewhat politically toxic.

I joined this community 16 years ago......it has made me laugh, enlightened me, entertained me...and even occasionally moved me...... from people from all countries/backgrounds/creeds/etc......but always people passionate about WitP.

The recent turn this thread has taken means I feel I must step away from the WitP family......except perhaps to look for future opponents.

Keep safe......be kind to each other.

This Penguin has to fly......bugger....I'm flightless!

Bill popped in and gave a warning.

It's fine. We at least know where people are coming from now. [;)]

I still get a lot of good information here and I haven't had to debate this intensely since university, so it's actually good practice.

A lot of others have felt this way, needing to take a break, which is a shame, but I hope it will heal in time.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Let's use precise language: it would be more accurate to write that they support him to use the Supreme Court to roll back the power of federal agencies to regulate air/water standards, deny women their reproductive rights and a general desire to "own the libs" following years of frustration and establishment politics.

Then there's the underlying theme of racism that has ran through the Republican party for the past few years.

Yes, the US right has lofty and noble aspirations indeed.

Wow. I admit I don't know Trump personally. The closest I ever was to him, was once in the 1980's I was one hole behind him on a golf course. But I know plenty of people that do in the business world. He has an enviable record of hiring minorities and putting women in charge and compensating them very highly. Before he ran for President he received accolades and awards for it from those communities.

Can you provide evidence regarding promoting women and hiring minorities? If the awards are as you say they are (and given some of the background reading I've done regarding employment at Trump properties, I am somewhat cautious).

Trumps recent comments on minorities and women are both in the public domain. Let me say if he was what you claimed he was, then he has fallen far.

I have never seen overt racism in my business life exhibited by a business. I am not saying it doesn't happen. Once, in the 80's I heard of a local police officer refusing to give mouth to mouth to an accident victim, in about six months that officer was fired. Of course I have heard stories of refusal to seat people in a restaurant, but I have also heard about the same number of stories discriminating against police officers.

Rather than the double negative, try just the straight fact - racism does happen.

I am old enough to remember what real pollution looked like the US. You could walk on Lake Erie, coke mills leaving a dusting on cars and window sills. Lead gasoline and lead paint. Strip mining. I feel bad for countries like China, Indonesia and India, you must really dislike them.

Glad you agree the need to keep the legislation.

[durnedwolf]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Let's use precise language: it would be more accurate to write that they support him to use the Supreme Court to roll back the power of federal agencies to regulate air/water standards, deny women their reproductive rights and a general desire to "own the libs" following years of frustration and establishment politics.

Then there's the underlying theme of racism that has ran through the Republican party for the past few years.

Yes, the US right has lofty and noble aspirations indeed.

Wow. I admit I don't know Trump personally. The closest I ever was to him, was once in the 1980's I was one hole behind him on a golf course. But I know plenty of people that do in the business world. He has an enviable record of hiring minorities and putting women in charge and compensating them very highly. Before he ran for President he received accolades and awards for it from those communities.

I have never seen overt racism in my business life exhibited by a business. I am not saying it doesn't happen. Once, in the 80's I heard of a local police officer refusing to give mouth to mouth to an accident victim, in about six months that officer was fired. Of course I have heard stories of refusal to seat people in a restaurant, but I have also heard about the same number of stories discriminating against police officers.

I am old enough to remember what real pollution looked like the US. You could walk on Lake Erie, coke mills leaving a dusting on cars and window sills. Lead gasoline and lead paint. Strip mining. I feel bad for countries like China, Indonesia and India, you must really dislike them.

Thank you for sharing that, Lowpe. Sometimes we forget that we can be many things to different people.


Earned

Bachelor of Science in economics from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania (1968)

Trump's star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame

Honorary

Doctor of Laws from Lehigh University in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania (1988)[1][2][3]
Doctor of Humane Letters from Wagner College in Staten Island, New York (2004)[4][5]
Doctor of Business Administration from Robert Gordon University in Aberdeen, Scotland (2010; revoked 2015)[6][7][8]
Doctor of Business Administration from Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia (2012)[9][10]
Doctor of Laws from Liberty University (2017)[11][12][1]
Organization honors and awards
A ceremony in which Trump receiving the 2015 Marine Corps–Law Enforcement Foundation's annual Commandant's Leadership Award. Four men are standing, all wearing black suits; Trump is second from the right. The two center men (Trump and another man) are holding the award.
Trump receiving the 2015 Marine Corps–Law Enforcement Foundation's annual Commandant's Leadership Award in recognition of his contributions to American military education programs
Humanitarian Award by the National Jewish Health (1976)[13]
Tree of Life Award by the Jewish National Fund (1983)[14]
Ellis Island Medal of Honor recognizing his German heritage and professional contributions as a developer to New York City (1986)[15]
Golden Raspberry Award for Worst Supporting Actor by the Golden Raspberry Award Foundation for his appearance in Ghosts Can't Do It (1991)[16]
President's Medal by the Freedom Foundation (Washington) for his support of youth programs (1995)[17]
Gaming Hall of Fame (1995)[18]
Star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame (2007)[19][20]
Muhammad Ali Entrepreneur Award (2007)[21]
The Center For Biological Diversity's 12 Annual Rubber Dodo Award as "top eco--villain" (2018),[22] conferred February 15, 2019[23]
Unicorn Children's Foundation Shining Star Award (2008)[24]
Multiple AAA Five Diamond Awards for his hotels.[25][26]
Palm Tree Award by the Palm Beach Police Foundation (2010)[27]
Presidential Hero Award by the Lois Pope LIFE Foundation (2011)[28]
WWE Hall of Fame (Class of 2013)[29]
New Jersey Boxing Hall of Fame (2015)[30]
The Algemeiner Liberty Award for contributions to Israel–United States relations (2015)[31]
Marine Corps–Law Enforcement Foundation Commandant's Leadership Award (2015)[32]
Time Person of the Year (2016)[33]
Financial Times Person of the Year (2016)[34]
Friends of Zion Award by The Friends of Zion Museum (2017)[35]
Sports Business Journal Most Influential Person in Sports Business (2017)[36]
Temple Coin featuring Trump (alongside King Cyrus) from the Mikdash Educational Center in honor of Trump recognizing Jerusalem as the country's capital. (2018)[37]
Beitar Trump Jerusalem F.C., renamed themselves, adding Trump's name for recognizing Jerusalem as country's capital. (2018)[38]
Atlantic City Boxing Hall of Fame (2018)[39]
2018 Wounded Warrior Project Award – commemorating Trump's support for the group during the 2018 Soldier Ride
2019 Time 100 Most Influential People in the World.[40]
2019 Bipartisan Justice Award – for signing the First Step Act into law.[41]


Awards List for Trump

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Let's use precise language: it would be more accurate to write that they support him to use the Supreme Court to roll back the power of federal agencies to regulate air/water standards, deny women their reproductive rights and a general desire to "own the libs" following years of frustration and establishment politics.

Then there's the underlying theme of racism that has ran through the Republican party for the past few years.

Yes, the US right has lofty and noble aspirations indeed.

Wow. I admit I don't know Trump personally. The closest I ever was to him, was once in the 1980's I was one hole behind him on a golf course. But I know plenty of people that do in the business world. He has an enviable record of hiring minorities and putting women in charge and compensating them very highly. Before he ran for President he received accolades and awards for it from those communities.

Can you provide evidence regarding promoting women and hiring minorities? If the awards are as you say they are (and given some of the background reading I've done regarding employment at Trump properties, I am somewhat cautious).

Trumps recent comments on minorities and women are both in the public domain. Let me say if he was what you claimed he was, then he has fallen far.

I have never seen overt racism in my business life exhibited by a business. I am not saying it doesn't happen. Once, in the 80's I heard of a local police officer refusing to give mouth to mouth to an accident victim, in about six months that officer was fired. Of course I have heard stories of refusal to seat people in a restaurant, but I have also heard about the same number of stories discriminating against police officers.

Rather than the double negative, try just the straight fact - racism does happen.

I am old enough to remember what real pollution looked like the US. You could walk on Lake Erie, coke mills leaving a dusting on cars and window sills. Lead gasoline and lead paint. Strip mining. I feel bad for countries like China, Indonesia and India, you must really dislike them.

Glad you agree the need to keep the legislation.

Here is an PBS frontline report on Barbara.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/arti ... rbara-res/

Here is Jesse Jackson:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4773388/ ... der-served

It was a Republican that created the EPA in America. Equally Democrats have done wonderful things in America. I would never call one racist over the the other or one trying to poison the world. I fear you are letting the political diatribe influence your thinking.

I am a continuous improvement kind of guy. I think all legislation can be continually improved.

Sure racism exists, but so does love, understanding, empathy and compassion.[:)]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


It is a question of perspective.

My mother-in-law, if she was still alive, would have slapped you for suggesting that we were able to put things back together quickly...with respect to the great depression or the inflation of the 70s. Reuse, repair or do without, and sometime in the 70s she added recycle. A mindset that is totally alien to almost everyone alive today in the US.

Nothing wrong with being an optimist.[:)]

I lived with my grandmother from age 5 to 12 after my parents split. She was born in 1912 and went through the depression in her prime years of marriage and having kids. When I lived with her nearly half a century later she was still hoarding canned foods, clipping coupons, saying nearly everything she could use, sewing her own clothes and mending mine. She was the most positive person I have ever been around, and she knew how to have some fun.

So this is not alien to me, unfortunately. I still struggle not to "collect" too many interesting things I might use later, or scraps I could make into something else. I've just been remaking my garden shed and I took out a greenhouse. I sat on the glass for a long time, not knowing how I'd use it. I ended up raising the roof to put a clear-story in and learned to put glass, rout window frames and install them up high to give more light into the two rooms.

Just this week I cut down some of the excess to be recycled, but still kept eight sheets in case I need them. Silly, but it's my grandma in me.

I really enjoyed reading that.[:)]

One of my biggest fears is how this virus will impact my future relationship with potential grandchildren. Came close earlier this year at being a Grandfather, but sadly wasn't to be.

[Cap Mandrake]

Me in 2016: Let's see..Trump or Hildabeast? I can't make up my mind!

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: obvert


There are no digs. The personnel stuff is because I'm fed up with the BS you and others throw ardour at anyone who presents something slightly different than your world view, and is met with outrage without any foundation in fact. My default is to look widely for expert advice, objective information and base my posts on the best science has to offer in the moment. There are no politics in that, no agenda, just trying to understand.

This is objective information I'm getting from sources that are verified. How do you explain what Fauci said in this interview?

Have a look. One week to have 60% less deaths in this phase. Two weeks earlier to have 90% less. Even if there is some error margin in those projections, I'd certainly take 40-50% less deaths. Wouldn't you?

I posted Fauci's own comments quite a while back. CNN asked a hypothetical question, then used his answer far, far out of context. You cite an NYT article which compounds the same untruth. When one lies and the other swears to it, well, I guess you are right - that's verified!

You present the hypothetical as though fact. I presented that which has actually happened and you call it "without any foundation in fact".

Bye.

I did use those as examples, but it's easy to find the interview where he is responding to the NY Times article and confirms recommendations were given in late Feb.

Fauci does not deny when asked that he recommended social distancing guidelines in late February. He says they made a health recommendation. "Sometimes it's taken, sometimes it's not."

He was clearly saying the Science team had made a recommendation.

This is a larger version of the original quoted interview. Here is the interview:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/12/poli ... index.html

By the third week of February, advisers had drafted a list of measures they believed would soon be necessary, like school closures, sports and concert cancellations and stay-at-home orders, but the president did not embrace them until mid-March.

Dr. Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984, said on Sunday that earlier imposition of such policies would have made a difference.

“I mean, obviously, you could logically say that if you had a process that was ongoing and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives,” he said on “State of the Union” on CNN. “Obviously, no one is going to deny that. But what goes into those kinds of decisions is complicated. But you’re right. Obviously, if we had, right from the very beginning, shut everything down, it may have been a little bit different. But there was a lot of pushback about shutting things down.”

It was 2nd week of March, that my parents home shutdown fully. But over the preceding weeks they had instituted a stronger and stronger precautions. They had formed an ad-hoc communication network about the virus in February with the other homes in the area. They acted faster than the State Govt. The lockdown is also far more comprehensive than the State's.

Still, even with acting early, the death toll in my county is predominantly in senior homes. Some of the homes were relying upon help from the state which was planned for but never implemented as the state focused primarily on hospitals.

Interestingly enough, on March 3rd this was what the WHO was saying:

To summarize, COVID-19 spreads less efficiently than flu, transmission does not appear to be driven by people who are not sick, it causes more severe illness than flu, there are not yet any vaccines or therapeutics, and it can be contained

[Cap Mandrake]

Have you ever tried to load a dishwasher with someone? Inevitably, one person tries to redo what the other one does to "make it more efficient" or some other imagined advantage. Human beings are social animals but the desire too be "right" is very strong. Sometimes it even extends across large bodies of water.

[Lowpe]

A Secret Algorithm Is Deciding Who Will Die in America (Bloomberg Opinion)

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... o-will-die

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Have you ever tried to load a dishwasher with someone? .

No, I am still married.[:)] That is a great question.[&o]

[Nomad]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Have you ever tried to load a dishwasher with someone?

I assume you have to push really hard to get them to fit. [:)]