OT: Corona virus

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Have you ever tried to load a dishwasher with someone?

I assume you have to push really hard to get them to fit. [:)]

Okay, I take it back. Wasn't such a great question after all.[;)]

[Lowpe]

US government turned down opportunity to manufacture millions of N95 masks at start of pandemic: report

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... 5-masks-at


This story looks really bad. But a cursory search on my part raises two concerns. If the manufacturer's phones were ringing off the hook, why did they not re-open the mask line and sell them to other interested parties?

The other is scale. 3M make 1.1 billion masks a year, and has pledged to increase production by 30%. Honeywell is another company expanding their mask production.

This story is a perfect example of journalistic problems. I am sure the article gets kudos for accuracy, but it is only telling a tiny part of the story.

But the story makes HHS look bad for turning down the business proposal....in January.

[Cap Mandrake]

Der Spiegel says the BND is reporting that Xi asked Tedros to cover up information on human to human transmission. Now, without the benefit of 20 ton satellites and a billion terabytes of servers I was able to figure this out almost 4 months ago. All you had to do was listen to the official statements of the WHO and read the social media from Taiwan and Hong Kong to see the obvious disconnect.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rning.html

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

US government turned down opportunity to manufacture millions of N95 masks at start of pandemic: report

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... 5-masks-at


This story looks really bad. But a cursory search on my part raises two concerns. If the manufacturer's phones were ringing off the hook, why did they not re-open the mask line and sell them to other interested parties?

The other is scale. 3M make 1.1 billion masks a year, and has pledged to increase production by 30%. Honeywell is another company expanding their mask production.

This story is a perfect example of journalistic problems. I am sure the article gets kudos for accuracy, but it is only telling a tiny part of the story.

But the story makes HHS look bad for turning down the business proposal....in January.

3M did increase production - last January:

3M CEO: ‘We’re going 24/7’ to ramp up production of masks to meet coronavirus demand
Published Tue, Jan 28 2020

“We are ramping to full production. We’re going 24/7,” Roman said. He added that the company is increasing production at its plants in China and other Asian countries, as well as in Europe in the United States.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/28/3m-ramp ... emand.html

and:

3M Increases Respirator Production to Meet Growing Demand

To fill the growing demand for the devices, particularly the N95 respirator, 3M is ramping up production, which means hosting job fairs, making offers on the spot and expanding its assembly line with robots.

In Aberdeen, South Dakota, more than 650 employees at one of 3M’s largest manufacturing facilities are working overtime to increase face mask production.

“We immediately ramped up production in this facility,” says Andy Rehder, plant manager at 3M. “We have capacity to do that and we did that immediately ... really from a more standard five-day to a seven-day week.”

https://www.assemblymag.com/articles/95 ... ing-demand

and more things as well:

3M inks $126M deal with DoD to increase N95 mask production in October

Also on Wednesday, 3M announced Ford is shipping 10,000 powered air-purifying respirators, or PAPRs -- which the two companies collaborated to develop -- to protect healthcare workers fighting the COVID-19 pandemic.

According to 3M, since the COVID-19 outbreak began, the company has doubled its global output of filtering facepiece respirators, such as N95s, to more than 1.1 billion per year, or 100 million per month -- with 35 million N95s being produced in the United States.

The company said that 90 percent of N95s it currently produces go directly to health care workers.

https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2020/0 ... 588795870/

I read earlier that the plant in South Dakota had equipment in storage. In the middle of January (around the 17th?) the plant received a call about something going around in China and to increase production of the masks. The stored equipment was put online, the plant went from 5 days a week production to 7 days a week production, more people were hired, and people worked overtime. I believe that I had posted that somewhere in this thread. If someone wants to, they can look for it.

[Cap Mandrake]

This is not negligence. This is willful fraud. When we get done the CCP they need to be picking the corn out of their own s*** for 20 years.

[Lowpe]

This is an interesting website.

Help Collect Real-World Evidence to Evaluate COVID-19 Treatments.

https://www.acresglobal.net/covid-19/

I am not qualified to say that this is accurate, but reading the risk factors, clinical presentation, symptoms, testing methods was fascinating.

My heart goes out to all doctors and nurses for the amount of paperwork they have to fill out. I am always struck by how much of the time my doctors are on the computer (or their assistants).

[RFalvo69]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Damn am I glad I took a few steps back for a while.

Watching you all take pot shots at each other is actually rather entertaining.

Well, time to wade back in.

A quick thrust at all you Eurosocialists damning the US for not implementing nation wide orders.....

So ALL of the European continent implemented the same imperial edict orders and followed them?

Many of our states are three times the size of many of your nations...........yet is is OK for your individual nations to go their own ways....but not for our states?

My what hypocrites you all are.

How is your in-depth research about Bill Gates' children going? [:)]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

This is not negligence. This is willful fraud. When we get done the CCP they need to be picking the corn out of their own s*** for 20 years.

There is a bill up in congress to rename the street the Chinese Embassy is on after one of the missing Chinese Covid Doctors now presumed dead.

[Cap Mandrake]

Gov. Newsome (Calif.) steps in it and accuses nail salons of spreading COVID. Perhaps he did the math. He probably doesn't get many votes from the Vietnamese.

https://www.breitbart.com/

"Ahhhhhh you like-ah COVID with ceramic? Only 5 dollah more!"

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

This is not negligence. This is willful fraud. When we get done the CCP they need to be picking the corn out of their own s*** for 20 years.

There is a bill up in congress to rename the street the Chinese Embassy is on after one of the missing Chinese Covid Doctors now presumed dead.

Dr Li. A heroic figure on par with "Tankman" at Tienanmen. Look how young he is. I am VERY suspicious they PRC off'ed the Dr Li.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51364382

[Lowpe]

This can’t go on. California has to figure a way out

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/wil ... 258034.php

Willie Brown's column, previous Mayor of San Fran.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

This is not negligence. This is willful fraud. When we get done the CCP they need to be picking the corn out of their own s*** for 20 years.

There is a bill up in congress to rename the street the Chinese Embassy is on after one of the missing Chinese Covid Doctors now presumed dead.

Dr Li. A heroic figure on par with "Tankman" at Tienanmen. Look how young he is. I am VERY suspicious they PRC off'ed the Dr Li.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51364382

Then there are the three Russian Doctors that happened to fall out of hospital windows recently, after being critical.

Tankman: The Tank Man has been identified as 19-year-old archaeology student Wang Weilin, but his fate remains unknown. General secretary Jiang Zemin denied any knowledge of his arrest but insisted he would not have been run over or subsequently executed. Some believe he escaped to Taiwan.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Nomad

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Have you ever tried to load a dishwasher with someone?

I assume you have to push really hard to get them to fit. [:)]

Okay, I take it back. Wasn't such a great question after all.[;)]

[:D]

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Just thinking about the public health vs public freedom angle.

The NHS estimates smoking-related deaths at 78,000pa in the UK. Cancer Research UK have it at 115,000pa.

If you assume a 20% 'hardcore' who would continue smoking whatever the legal status you could suggest that we could save 60-90 thousand deaths a year by banning smoking.

The tax take from smoking products is c.£10 billion - a seemingly massive number in isolation but only c.1-2% of the overall UK tax revenue. Certainly less than what has been spent so far in the economic measures introduced to mitigate against the effects of lockdown.

I don't think it is a massive leap to suggest that in the UK we already accept a level of premature deaths equivalent to what we are seeing from Covid-19 in the name of public freedom to smoke.

[edit - the counterpoint would be that the people dying in the UK from smoking related diseases are to a large extent those that were smoking heavily through the 70s/80s and never stopped. Anecdotally my dad was smoking 20-30 a day in the office in the late 70s/early 80s. The world is very different now - I'd expect the current rates of smoking related deaths to drop significantly in the next 20 years - at least in the West]

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

Just thinking about the public health vs public freedom angle.

The NHS estimates smoking-related deaths at 78,000pa in the UK. Cancer Research UK have it at 115,000pa.

If you assume a 20% 'hardcore' who would continue smoking whatever the legal status you could suggest that we could save 60-90 thousand deaths a year by banning smoking.

The tax take from smoking products is c.£10 billion - a seemingly massive number in isolation but only c.1-2% of the overall UK tax revenue. Certainly less than what has been spent so far in the economic measures introduced to mitigate against the effects of lockdown.

I don't think it is a massive leap to suggest that in the UK we already accept a level of premature deaths equivalent to what we are seeing from Covid-19 in the name of public freedom to smoke.

[edit - the counterpoint would be that the people dying in the UK from smoking related diseases are to a large extent those that were smoking heavily through the 70s/80s and never stopped. Anecdotally my dad was smoking 20-30 a day in the office in the late 70s/early 80s. The world is very different now - I'd expect the current rates of smoking related deaths to drop significantly in the next 20 years - at least in the West]

I told an RN in an assisted living facility that I was thinking about taking up smoking. She asked why would I do that? I replied that if I caught enough fish that I would smoke them.

Using tobacco products is a personal choice, it is currently legal to do so. Catching Sars-CoV is not so much a personal choice.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

Just thinking about the public health vs public freedom angle.

The NHS estimates smoking-related deaths at 78,000pa in the UK. Cancer Research UK have it at 115,000pa.

If you assume a 20% 'hardcore' who would continue smoking whatever the legal status you could suggest that we could save 60-90 thousand deaths a year by banning smoking.

The tax take from smoking products is c.£10 billion - a seemingly massive number in isolation but only c.1-2% of the overall UK tax revenue. Certainly less than what has been spent so far in the economic measures introduced to mitigate against the effects of lockdown.

I don't think it is a massive leap to suggest that in the UK we already accept a level of premature deaths equivalent to what we are seeing from Covid-19 in the name of public freedom to smoke.

[edit - the counterpoint would be that the people dying in the UK from smoking related diseases are to a large extent those that were smoking heavily through the 70s/80s and never stopped. Anecdotally my dad was smoking 20-30 a day in the office in the late 70s/early 80s. The world is very different now - I'd expect the current rates of smoking related deaths to drop significantly in the next 20 years - at least in the West]

My dad and mom were heavy smokers and I blame it as one of the factors for my mom dying at 62 from a heart attack (she was very slim, so obesity was not a factor). My dad had a minor heart attack and quit smoking soon after, living another thirty years.

In Britain and Canada, the calculations about tobacco tax revenue vs health costs borne by the taxpayers in general shows that it would be better to ban smoking, but social customs are not easily banned so they were eased out by making it more difficult to smoke everywhere. For the same reasons, drinking alcohol leads to more total health costs than the revenues from taxes, but social customs and restaurant/bar survival depend on alcohol so it is partly controlled rather than banned. Vaping was invented to get around the smoking restrictions but the chemicals being used have been proven to cause lung damage too.

As with many things, moderate alcohol use is largely beneficial to our overall well being (including social relationships in that), but binging and addictive drinking are a problem. I see no benefits from smoking or vaping, except to support a habit of putting something in our mouths.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


Using tobacco products is a personal choice, it is currently legal to do so. Catching Sars-CoV is not so much a personal choice.

I'm not talking about a personal level but at a national level. Personal choices re. smoking could be significantly affected by national policy. I'm a smoker but would stop if it was illegal.

In terms of Covid-19 - on a personal level everybody could significantly reduce their chances of being infected by staying at home and avoiding all contact from the outside world. On a national level if everybody does that the economy collapses.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy



My dad and mom were heavy smokers and I blame it as one of the factors for my mom dying at 62 from a heart attack (she was very slim, so obesity was not a factor). My dad had a minor heart attack and quit smoking soon after, living another thirty years.

In Britain and Canada, the calculations about tobacco tax revenue vs health costs borne by the taxpayers in general shows that it would be better to ban smoking, but social customs are not easily banned so they were eased out by making it more difficult to smoke everywhere. For the same reasons, drinking alcohol leads to more total health costs than the revenues from taxes, but social customs and restaurant/bar survival depend on alcohol so it is partly controlled rather than banned. Vaping was invented to get around the smoking restrictions but the chemicals being used have been proven to cause lung damage too.

As with many things, moderate alcohol use is largely beneficial to our overall well being (including social relationships in that), but binging and addictive drinking are a problem. I see no benefits from smoking or vaping, except to support a habit of putting something in our mouths.

I think that nicotine addiction is slightly more interesting psychologically than the bit in bold. My own view is that people who smoke nowadays (myself included) are people that find it difficult to regulate their emotions/mental health. Smoking gives that feeling (albeit perhaps an illusion) of having a means of control. Despite all the public health measures introduced in the UK smoking rates remain sky-high amongst people with severe mental health conditions like Schizophrenia/BPAD etc.

[Lowpe]

Take the Shutdown Skeptics Seriously

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ly/611419/

[Lowpe]

Bay Area cities face grim financial outlook amid budget slashing. Here’s what they are planning to cut

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/art ... 259394.php

Grim reading here. Very grim. Tough, tough choices ahead.