Japanese Economy Advice

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: inqistor

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

ORIGINAL: inqistor


No engine needed. You can get up to 30 points of R&D per month, and double that with extra engines. Well, you can get more R&D points with single factory larger than IIRC 300, if you care.

Can you address that? First time I hear the "300-size-thing"

When MichaelM was repairing some bugs in BETA, he pasted that part of the code in forum. It is weird, and nobody knows who originally written it that way. You would have probably to dig in some previous BETA threads. I don't recall exact values. It might have been 400, or 500, but code definitely allows for more than 1 point of research per day at some absurd production value.

From what I remember, a 320 research factory will always yield 2 points. It probably won't repair that fast in the game until it will start production.

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: inqistor

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

Thanks Joe. Yup I get I only need the 100 but as a rule of thumb if you had 400 R&D also going what level would you have your engine production at?[:)]

Technically, every R&D point produced would use extra engine, so you would need exactly that much production for maximum effect.

However, you can repair only ONE point per day, so it will take you year to achieve such production. You'll better plan how much airframes you are going to produce, and set engines production at that level. You will probably run out of HI points much sooner

Well it's certainly a lot. Adding up what I need from production and R&D the current monthly engine production shortfalls are:

Nakajima Ha-35: 503
Mitsubishi Ha-32: 660
Mitsubishi Ha-43: 710
Nakajima HA-45: 480
Mitsubishi Ha-33: 692
Nakajima Ha-34: 170

[:D]

[ITAKLinus]

No no wait, I think you have done some mistake in the calculations.

You don't need an engine for every factory point, you need an engine for the whole factory. So, it's 1 engine per-factory and not 1 engine per-factory level.

It should yield more human engine needs.

I am notoriously a big producer of planes and I don't have those needs in '43! Well, for most of the engines...

[RangerJoe]

I disagree. It is one engine for every research point produced. So for a fully repaired size 30 research factory, in 30 days with the engine bonus, you will use 30 engines.

You will then need the appropriate number of engines for every air frame produced.

[Speedysteve]

That's what I always thought too. So for example if I have 210 x fac units R&Ding Frank A's I need to plan for 210 engine units for them in prep for future production. What rough amount of engine production do people see? Are my numbers totally out of whack?

[PaxMondo]

What is out of whack is that you are not likely to afford that supply expenditure on engine factories …

you have 3M supply wrapped up in just your engines, and only 480 on the Ha-45 … so that points to you being heavily front loaded on gen and gen 2 aircraft, and short on gen 3.

Of course, if you are going for auto vic in '43, that changes everything …

[Speedysteve]

Hi Pax,

This is the R&D plan at present:

IJN
----

A6M5C (via Rufe)
J2M2 Jack (final model doesn't seem worth it)
A7M2 Sam
Shinden

P1Y2-S Frances

B7A Grace
D4Y3/D4Y4 Judy

B6N2 Jill

P1Y2 Frances

IJA
-----

Ki-44-IIC Tojo
Ki-84a Frank
Ki-84r Frank
Ki-43-IV Oscar
Ki-102a Randy
Ki-83

Ki-45 KAIa Nick (found them handy in my last game for at least turning away 4E's if not shooting loads down)

Ki-102c Randy

Ki-67-1a (T) Peggy

[Speedysteve]

I've dedicated 6 x 30 facs to each Fighter model

[Speedysteve]

Could really do with some guidance and thoughts on engine production amounts as I don't want to expand all to the amounts I listed above and find it's not needed or it bankrupts me as that's game over already and waste of time.

Thanks

[inqistor]

Yeah, research bonus is nice, but when you add all those numbers, there is no way Japan can fund that

Your main goal are fighters. Allies gets around 300 fighters per month as replacements in 1942 (plus lots of reinforcements). You obviously want to beat that number, and produce more fighters. So establish your production plan for 1942, and you can safely expand to that number of engines.
Other planes are tricky. If they use the same engine as fighters, you can add some surplus. But remember that you need ONE engine for every engine in plane. EMILY uses FOUR.

In 1943, Allies get up to 700 fighters per month. To beat that, you can include some engines for planes still in research.

You really can't ramp production fast as Japan, because every factory can repair only ONE point per turn. Plan to put 20 JAKEs in every FP unit is great, but you just can't expand your engines production that fast. In theory, all your R&D factories will turn into production one day. You have just gradually estimate, which one and when begin production, so it will definitely would need engines.

And remember, that plane model will become obsolete, and when you stop production engine will be no longer used by anything.

[PaxMondo]

So 6x30 means you will get your model about 3 months or so early, and you will have instant production of 6 planes per day. I tend not to spread my RnD out so much. There are a couple of critical AC, that getting early make a big impact in the game.

Example: Frank. Getting Frank in mid '43 completely negates that allied TBolt arrival. Worse, for the allies, you can far out produce them, and for you the Frank is useful for the entire war. 12x30, 15x30 or even 18x30 on this is what I have used. The earliest I have gotten Frank is 4/43, and it was quite painful for allies as I was producing 18/day. Meaning, I was able to completely upgrade a 36 AC group in 2 days. In one week, I was fielding Franks instead of Tojo's on the front lines, decimating the allied air groups. The only had F4U's that were even close to comparable in their inventory, and of course few of those and they weren't in theatre (India/Burma). In a month I had almost completely upgraded ALL of my IJA fighter groups, then I put 6x30 on the Frank -r RnD …

Example 2: A7M. Getting A7M ASAP is the most important thing you can do for the IJN. It means a LOT of RnD, but like the example above it isn't wasted at all. Again, if you have 15x30 or more, it means that when you finish RnD, you have the ability right away to produce a significant number of AC immediately, and get those new toys into the war right away. The A7M is an F6F killer. Now your KB fighter groups are not simply ablation, they can actually cut through F6F clouds …

[Speedysteve]

Thanks guys.

I've stuck to a compromise of 50-100 expansion per engine fac model for now. If I need more in the future I'll adjust!

[PaxMondo]

The engine bonus is a nice thing, but like many things, only in moderation. Meaning for IJ, you can only make a move for it on one or two engines without ruining your economy; realizing that even one comes with some significant cost.

Unless I am going for autovic in '42 or '43, I would only try to get the engine bonus for Ha-45 and/or maybe the Ha-43. It depends upon my 3rd gen AC targets. These are safer as I can get the bonus before I have reached my max need for that engine model. With any of the Ha-3x engine models it is hard to do that unless you are targeting autovic.

But even with these, I have to spend supply on building engine factories when I also need supply for my conquests. The competition between these two needs is difficult to balance until your expansion is complete.

[Speedysteve]

Thanks Pax.

If going for auto-victory which strategy have you found most successful out of interest (Australia, India, Russia, US WC etc etc)?

[Chickenboy]

Autovictory on January 1, 1943 requires a 4:1 ratio of VPs in the (presumably) Japanese favor. So you've got to ask yourself where can you generate that sort of one-sided VP gain by then?

USSR is right out. Full stop. Activating the Soviets that early on *may* generate gains, but unlikely at a 4:1 ratio.

India is a tar baby. The Allies have complete freedom of movement with their excellent rail system there. It will be impossible to cut off troops that can merely rail out of the nearest unencumbered rail node. If the Japanese can take NW India *first*, perhaps that will help, but it's difficult to do that before the expiration of the amphibious bonus.

West Coast US is a pipe dream. Same limitations as India re: rail system and reinforcements. Speaking of reinforcements, the Americans will get 'em in spades if you set foot south of Vancouver. Plus it's much farther away from suitable jump-off points for your requisite amphibious assaults. 4:1 ratio of VPs from this? Not gonna happen.

Australia is another 'go big or go home' place. While some players have managed to capture Western Australia early on, it's much more difficult to take SE Australia and hold it meaningfully. Australian national emergency reinforcements trigger for SE Australian incursions, so that will slow things dramatically too.

Autovictory can be achieved by more 'sure things'. Think about where the Japanese can get the most permanent VPs in 1942-by killing Allied LCUs. So, in addition to the usual purse in the DEI, Singapore and Philippines (maybe Ceylon too?), think about China. Putting Chungking out of commission, liquidating vast numbers of Chinese troops and claiming VPs for territorial gains, if combined with fortuitous ancillary gains elsewhere (think about liquidating the RN in the IO or causing a 'reverse-Midway' loss of American capital ships) is enough to throw you over that threshhold. At least it's worked for me.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Autovictory on January 1, 1943 requires a 4:1 ratio of VPs in the (presumably) Japanese favor. So you've got to ask yourself where can you generate that sort of one-sided VP gain by then?

USSR is right out. Full stop. Activating the Soviets that early on *may* generate gains, but unlikely at a 4:1 ratio.

India is a tar baby. The Allies have complete freedom of movement with their excellent rail system there. It will be impossible to cut off troops that can merely rail out of the nearest unencumbered rail node. If the Japanese can take NW India *first*, perhaps that will help, but it's difficult to do that before the expiration of the amphibious bonus.

West Coast US is a pipe dream. Same limitations as India re: rail system and reinforcements. Speaking of reinforcements, the Americans will get 'em in spades if you set foot south of Vancouver. Plus it's much farther away from suitable jump-off points for your requisite amphibious assaults. 4:1 ratio of VPs from this? Not gonna happen.

Australia is another 'go big or go home' place. While some players have managed to capture Western Australia early on, it's much more difficult to take SE Australia and hold it meaningfully. Australian national emergency reinforcements trigger for SE Australian incursions, so that will slow things dramatically too.

Autovictory can be achieved by more 'sure things'. Think about where the Japanese can get the most permanent VPs in 1942-by killing Allied LCUs. So, in addition to the usual purse in the DEI, Singapore and Philippines (maybe Ceylon too?), think about China. Putting Chungking out of commission, liquidating vast numbers of Chinese troops and claiming VPs for territorial gains, if combined with fortuitous ancillary gains elsewhere (think about liquidating the RN in the IO or causing a 'reverse-Midway' loss of American capital ships) is enough to throw you over that threshhold. At least it's worked for me.

taking China and India brings you to a 6.5:1 in 1/43 if you don't lose too much.

[Lowpe]

Noumea and Suva are decent VP totals too. Noumea is 300 base points to the Allies...so removing that is quite the impact.

[Speedysteve]

Thanks for this guys[8D]