OT: Corona virus

[JohnDillworth]

I feel very certain that it is politics and not medicine that is dictating the majority of the response to this virus. Unfortunately, that is how the world operates. If you are powerful enough you can pretty much write your own rules especially when the medicine is uncertain -- it can easily be shaped by special interests.

Amen. This is where a lack of central leadership really hurts. The least we could have is honest reporting of the numbers

[MakeeLearn]

Who is dying from the coronavirus in Massachusetts?

May 12, 2020

https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus ... -19-deaths



Overall numbers:

Cases: 79,332
Deaths: 5,141

Average Age of death in confirmed cases : 82

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Pennsylvania just gets stranger and stranger.

Adding fuel to the fire was the was admission that Health Secretary Levine removed her mother from a personal care home while not allowing the same priviledge to every other Pennsylvanian, as reported by State Representative Seth Grove of York County. Remember folks, this is the same Secretary Levine who sentenced hundreds of elderly Pennsylvanians to death by forcing the admission of Covid19 patients to nursing homes. On Monday morning, Pennsylvania State Senator Doug Mastriano called for the removal of Secretary of Health Dr. Levine, who he says has committed medical malpractice in mishandling of the coronavirus pandemic.

That sounds good to me but I don't live there.

I wonder about manslaughter charges . . .

Egads, you are kind of blood thirsty![:D]

In the short run, this person's ability to lead has been seriously hurt and it hurts the Governor very badly. I suspect a resignation might be forthcoming.

In the longer term, I am not certain on the viability of suing the State, but lawyers are an innovative bunch of people.

[MakeeLearn]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Pennsylvania just gets stranger and stranger.

Adding fuel to the fire was the was admission that Health Secretary Levine removed her mother from a personal care home while not allowing the same priviledge to every other Pennsylvanian, as reported by State Representative Seth Grove of York County. Remember folks, this is the same Secretary Levine who sentenced hundreds of elderly Pennsylvanians to death by forcing the admission of Covid19 patients to nursing homes. On Monday morning, Pennsylvania State Senator Doug Mastriano called for the removal of Secretary of Health Dr. Levine, who he says has committed medical malpractice in mishandling of the coronavirus pandemic.

That sounds good to me but I don't live there.

I wonder about manslaughter charges . . .

Egads, you are kind of blood thirsty![:D]

In the short run, this person's ability to lead has been seriously hurt and it hurts the Governor very badly. I suspect a resignation might be forthcoming.

In the longer term, I am not certain on the viability of suing the State, but lawyers are an innovative bunch of people.

Tar, feathers, a rail....

[MakeeLearn]

In this county in the 1830s 2 men were caught counterfeiting money. They were given a trial, found guilty - horse whipped then sent on their way.

I bet they learned more in one whipping than 10 years in jail and it saved society money.

[MakeeLearn]

95% of Alabama coronavirus deaths among people with underlying conditions
May 12, 2020


https://www.al.com/news/2020/05/95-of-a ... tions.html



"Slightly more than 95% of Alabama’s coronavirus deaths were people with underlying health conditions, health department data shows."


"The median age of the fatalities was 72; the range of victims’ ages were 50 to 92. Seventy-four percent of those who died was older than age 65.

Sixty-three percent of the deaths among those with no underlying conditions were women; 37 percent were male. Fifty-three percent were white; 37 were black; and 11 percent were “other.”"

"Cardiovascular disease was the leading underlying medical conditions among the state’s coronavirus fatalities, found in 63 percent of those who died. Fifty-seven percent had “multiple underlying conditions” followed by diabetes (39%); renal disease (27%); and lung disease (25%)."

[MakeeLearn]

Conditioning: lather, rinse, repeat.

[MakeeLearn]

House Democrats Unveil $3 Trillion Aid Bill With Cash for States
7 hrs ago


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnb7Kz



"(Bloomberg) -- House Democrats proposed a $3 trillion virus relief bill Tuesday, combining aid to state and local governments with direct cash payments, expanded unemployment insurance and food stamp spending as well as a list of progressive priorities like funds for voting by mail and the troubled U.S. Postal Service."

"“Not acting is the most expensive course,” Pelosi said at the Capitol. “We face the biggest catastrophe in our nation’s history.”

The bill is a follow-up to the $3 trillion Congress has already spent on four bills in response to the crisis caused by the coronavirus pandemic, which has ground the world’s biggest economy to a halt."

------------------

“We face the biggest catastrophe in our nation’s history.[:D]

[Canoerebel]

France has 14.6% mortality (total cases divided by mortality, Worldometers). Italy, UK, Belgium, Sweden and Netherlands are over 10%. Spain is right at 10%. The US at 6%. Germany at 4.4%. South Korea 2.5%. Japan 4%.

There are large numbers of cases in many countries, but mortality percentages differ greatly. Why? Tabulating criteria? Quality of medical care? Average age or underlying health conditions of patients? Population density? Environmental conditions (such as pollution)? A combination of these and/or others?

One possibility: 3.6% of Japanese are obese (BMI over 30). The correlation doesn't hold well among western nations, however, where the rate is 39% of Americans, 29% UK and 23% Germany (figures limited to adults for these three nations) - if obesity were the overriding factor, you'd expect the highest mortality rate to be in the US.

[MakeeLearn]

If the politicians, Bill Gates, et al. really care about my health... my life, then they can give me 10 million dollars and I will sign a paper relieving them of that heavy responsibility.

[JohnDillworth]

Data Point: Cost of food has gone up dramatically https://foodindustryexecutive.com/2020/ ... pi-report/
I personally would like to apologize to the group as I feel my family has been entirely responsible for the massive rise in the price of eggs, cereal and bakery good. My household has taken up baking like it is a competitive sport.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

France has 14.6% mortality (total cases divided by mortality, Worldometers). Italy, UK, Belgium, Sweden and Netherlands are over 10%. Spain is right at 10%. The US at 6%. Germany at 4.4%. South Korea 2.5%. Japan 4%.

There are large numbers of cases in many countries, but mortality percentages differ greatly. Why? Tabulating criteria? Quality of medical care? Average age or underlying health conditions of patients? Population density? Environmental conditions (such as pollution)? A combination of these and/or others?

One possibility: 3.6% of Japanese are obese (BMI over 30). The correlation doesn't hold well among western nations, however, where the rate is 39% of Americans, 29% UK and 23% Germany (figures limited to adults for these three nations) - if obesity were the overriding factor, you'd expect the highest mortality rate to be in the US.

I think that the reason is the higher number of tests per capita done because that would find more cases. More milder cases found and found sooner for appropriate medical care would mean fewer deaths per case. But what do I know, I am not a politician.

[fcooke]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

House Democrats Unveil $3 Trillion Aid Bill With Cash for States
7 hrs ago


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnb7Kz



"(Bloomberg) -- House Democrats proposed a $3 trillion virus relief bill Tuesday, combining aid to state and local governments with direct cash payments, expanded unemployment insurance and food stamp spending as well as a list of progressive priorities like funds for voting by mail and the troubled U.S. Postal Service."

"“Not acting is the most expensive course,” Pelosi said at the Capitol. “We face the biggest catastrophe in our nation’s history.”

The bill is a follow-up to the $3 trillion Congress has already spent on four bills in response to the crisis caused by the coronavirus pandemic, which has ground the world’s biggest economy to a halt."

------------------

“We face the biggest catastrophe in our nation’s history.[:D]

A self imposed catastrophe which the politicians are having a feeding frenzy on. I would argue the Civil War might have been more of a catastrophe.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

France has 14.6% mortality (total cases divided by mortality, Worldometers). Italy, UK, Belgium, Sweden and Netherlands are over 10%. Spain is right at 10%. The US at 6%. Germany at 4.4%. South Korea 2.5%. Japan 4/10ths of a percent.

There are large numbers of cases in many countries, but mortality percentages differ greatly. Why? Tabulating criteria? Quality of medical care? Average age or underlying health conditions of patients? Population density? Environmental conditions (such as pollution). A combination of these and/or others?

One possibility: 3.6% of Japanese are obese (BMI over 30). The correlation doesn't hold well among western nations, however, where the rate is 39% of Americans, 29% UK and 23% Germany (figures limited to adults for these three nations).

These are the questions that need answering I think. I tend to think it is a combination of factors, but then which of those factors is most meaningful? For example CR mentions density:

Interestingly, Seoul's population density is almost twice that of New York City, four times higher than Los Angeles and eight times higher than the density of Rome.

Diet? Past experience with viral outbreaks? How about effectiveness of local govt? Life cycle of the virus?

Here is a study from Canada:

Canadian study finds temperature, latitude not associated with COVID-19 spread


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 083551.htm

A new study finds that temperature and latitude do not appear to be associated with the spread of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), but school closures and other public health measures are having a positive effect.

--
BTW, This is the 3rd source I have seen that mentions closing schools to have a positive effect.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe



That sounds good to me but I don't live there.

I wonder about manslaughter charges . . .

Egads, you are kind of blood thirsty![:D]

In the short run, this person's ability to lead has been seriously hurt and it hurts the Governor very badly. I suspect a resignation might be forthcoming.

In the longer term, I am not certain on the viability of suing the State, but lawyers are an innovative bunch of people.

Tar, feathers, a rail....

I am not blood thirsty. I have never had Black pudding (blood pudding) nor do I care for blood sausage. I have had blood sausage. Give me a good Thuringian bratwurst. Even with curry ketchsup and curry powder on it. Mit pomme frites und mayonaise, und ein gute bier!

But the idea is to send a message that such actions are not tolerated. Just having them resign probably is not punishment enough since the people involved will probably just become a paid lobbyist, lobbying their cronies still in government. And regular prison, no country club. In fact, put them in with lifers whose grandparents died from Covid-19 but don't give them special protection. I wonder if they would then squeal like a pig . . .

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth


This was the first fast food I have eaten in at least a year. I've just always preferred cash for day to day stuff. Pay is direct deposit and I just take out a bit each week for coffee and incidentals. I pack my own breakfast and lunch partially because I'm cheap, partially because it's sometimes hard to find something healthy to buy. Once they started to post calorie counts (about the same time as my heart attack 14 years ago) healthy eating became a bit of a necessity. My wife and kids say I'm just cheap or moths come out of dads wallet or dad has Confederate money in his wallet. All these card or phone systems advertise as convenient but are actually slower than plain old cash. Seems kind of dumb to pay two or three dollars via a debit card. Guess I will change with the times

My family has switched over too. We opened up a separate petty cash debit card, with no more than a few hundred dollar balance (in case it gets hacked/stolen). The card actually pays 10 cents every time we use it to pay for a transaction in person -- encouraging us to use it for smaller transactions. It has reduced our cash transactions almost to 0.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

ORIGINAL: Lowpe



Egads, you are kind of blood thirsty![:D]

In the short run, this person's ability to lead has been seriously hurt and it hurts the Governor very badly. I suspect a resignation might be forthcoming.

In the longer term, I am not certain on the viability of suing the State, but lawyers are an innovative bunch of people.

Tar, feathers, a rail....

I am not blood thirsty. I have never had Black pudding (blood pudding) nor do I care for blood sausage. I have had blood sausage. Give me a good Thuringian bratwurst. Even with curry ketchsup and curry powder on it. Mit pomme frites und mayonaise, und ein gute bier!

But the idea is to send a message that such actions are not tolerated. Just having them resign probably is not punishment enough since they people involved will probably just become a paid lobbyist, lobbying their cronies still in government. And regular prison, no country club. In fact, put them in with lifers whose grandparents died from Covid-19 but don't give them special protection. I wonder if they would then squeal like a pig . . .

But still you would look awfully silly if the reason behind pulling out her mother was a well documented case of elder abuse.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth
My household has taken up baking like it is a competitive sport.

Funny you should mention that.

Our supermarkets here have resumed a sense of near normalcy for most things. A month or so ago, you'd have great difficulty in locating toilet paper, paper towels, napkins, hand sanitizer and anything with bleach as a primary ingredient. Now these things are readily available.

But I haven't been able to locate baker's yeast (instant dry yeast) anywhere in the last couple of weeks. I actually went into the store to find some (usually I use the curbside grocery pickup service to reduce exposure) last week. Empty shelves. AP flour was pretty sparse too.

[fcooke]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

ORIGINAL: Lowpe



Egads, you are kind of blood thirsty![:D]

In the short run, this person's ability to lead has been seriously hurt and it hurts the Governor very badly. I suspect a resignation might be forthcoming.

In the longer term, I am not certain on the viability of suing the State, but lawyers are an innovative bunch of people.

Tar, feathers, a rail....

I am not blood thirsty. I have never had Black pudding (blood pudding) nor do I care for blood sausage. I have had blood sausage. Give me a good Thuringian bratwurst. Even with curry ketchsup and curry powder on it. Mit pomme frites und mayonaise, und ein gute bier!

But the idea is to send a message that such actions are not tolerated. Just having them resign probably is not punishment enough since they people involved will probably just become a paid lobbyist, lobbying their cronies still in government. And regular prison, no country club. In fact, put them in with lifers whose grandparents died from Covid-19 but don't give them special protection. I wonder if they would then squeal like a pig . . .

Black pudding is one of life's great treats. Hard to find up here in Orange county though.

It will be interesting to see how things pan out after this. I am very done with career politicians. And I really hate the 'do as I say, not as I do' crowd. IMO we could benefit from more small biz owners, caregivers, workers in govt who have a dash of common sense - and ethics.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth
My household has taken up baking like it is a competitive sport.

Funny you should mention that.

Our supermarkets here have resumed a sense of near normalcy for most things. A month or so ago, you'd have great difficulty in locating toilet paper, paper towels, napkins, hand sanitizer and anything with bleach as a primary ingredient. Now these things are readily available.

But I haven't been able to locate baker's yeast (instant dry yeast) anywhere in the last couple of weeks. I actually went into the store to find some (usually I use the curbside grocery pickup service to reduce exposure) last week. Empty shelves. AP flour was pretty sparse too.

We did our big shopping trip yesterday, went to 2 groceries and Costco. Meat expensive, and one grocery was almost totally sold out. Baking supplies restricted purchase inventory and choice very low. Milk plentiful (used to be restricted). Eggs getting more expensive and brands we never saw before. Butter cheaper. Toilet paper, paper towels, kleenex difficult to find and impossible to find the brands my wife swears by. Cleaning supplies restricted and difficult to find.