Scenario Question

[1nutworld]

Hi everyone.

Been playing with a scenario I created for myself of a US JASSM strike against targets in Iran.

One of the things I have done is give the US air forces in the scenario is an E-3 Sentry on patrol over the gulf/straits of Hormuz area. The Aircraft is radiating and on a 10 hour patrol. The idea behind having E-3 patrol was to help give the JASSM strike A/C input as Iran SAM contacts become identified when the strike force enters Iran air space.

There have been other US forces eliminating ground radars and if target of opportunity of a SAM site presents, US HARM/ARM patrols exist to give the JASSM strike force an ingress/egress corridor. No missions have been designated to eliminate ALL Iran radar sites, just those needed for ingress/egress corridor.

Computer controlled Iran (posture towards US forces hostile, with ELINT doctrine set to Radar active) has not been given A/C to patrol or defend it's territory, ONLY SAM coverage.Iran has it's EW and AD forces on alert with radars as designated by doctrine. (No I am not really attempting to be "fair")

My question for you is this...

Playing the game in editor mode, and switching from controlling US HARM strikes to JASSM strike A/C to IRAN, the US E-3 sentry
A/C is detected but is still listed as unknown by ALL Iran radar the entire time.

The E-3 is only operated by select nations once it's emissions are detected as it is the ONLY US forces A/C to be emitting a radar signature, so why wouldn't Iran detect from those emissions that it is that specific radar and radar platform?

I'm not presenting this as a game glitch or bug requiring a Tech support investigation, but more from a, this seems odd to me thing.

I know there are many smart people with intelligent ideas that can help me make sense of this.

[stww2]

I can think of two possibilities:

1) None of the Iranian units had sufficiently advanced ELINT sensors to identify the exact radar type. If this is the case, the contact from the Iranian side will just appear to be radiating a long-range air search radar (or something to that effect), and not the exact radar.

2) Because multiple states/organizations operate the E-3 (the US, the UK, Saudi Arabia, and NATO) identifying that the unit in question was an E-3 was not enough to produce an exact identification. CMO doesn't let you manually classify units (like in Dangerous Waters), so if multiple states operate a platform its exact classification will remain unidentified until it is detected visually. If this was in the case in the scenario in question, you can click on the E-3 contact from the Iranian side and then click on "Contact Report" and the game will provide you with possible database matches for the contact.

[1nutworld]

ORIGINAL: stww2

2) Because multiple states/organizations operate the E-3 (the US, the UK, Saudi Arabia, and NATO) identifying that the unit in question was an E-3 was not enough to produce an exact identification. CMO doesn't let you manually classify units (like in Dangerous Waters), so if multiple states operate a platform its exact classification will remain unidentified until it is detected visually. If this was in the case in the scenario in question, you can click on the E-3 contact from the Iranian side and then click on "Contact Report" and the game will provide you with possible database matches for the contact.

I actually went in to side Iran and looked at "contact report" and game didn't provide possible database matches.

But it seems strange that it won't at least classify the AN/APY-2 Radar from the emissions. and then more or less say: I don't know WHOSE this E-3 Sentry is...but by the radar signature emissions I know it's LIKELY an E-3.

That's what I was expecting.

[stww2]

Must be an issue with the ELINT capabilities of the Iranian units, then. I do not really have enough experience with the ELINT capabilities of ground-based/air defense units to say whether this is normal.

[Gunner98]

If Iran doesn't have the ELINT equipment to tell between a E-3A or an E-3B or a Wedgetail or whatever - it cannot classify it. A human (in game or in real life) can make the supposition that this is an American E-3 because they know that is likely. But mechanically within the game it can't, because it doesn't have the technology. The system has to work the same for classifying the difference between a MiG-23P and a MiG-23PD or an F-4C from and F-4G.

If it is important in your scenario make a Lua fix with a detect trigger.

[1nutworld]

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

If Iran doesn't have the ELINT equipment to tell between a E-3A or an E-3B or a Wedgetail or whatever - it cannot classify it. A human (in game or in real life) can make the supposition that this is an American E-3 because they know that is likely. But mechanically within the game it can't, because it doesn't have the technology. The system has to work the same for classifying the difference between a MiG-23P and a MiG-23PD or an F-4C from and F-4G.

If it is important in your scenario make a Lua fix with a detect trigger.

Not important at all Gunner.

Thanks for the logical explanation- I was thinking of it from the "human thought" aspect, which of course the equipment operating on it's own doesn't have!

[KnightHawk75]

What are the specific detecting elint sensors on the Iranian side with regard to the e-3(apy-2), and how far are they each from the e-2 when they pick it up and track it for awhile as ambiguous and not specifically identifiable target? Different sensors have different flags\capabilities on them in addition to operating in different wavelengths (some specific and narrow others very wide), with different sensitivities, at different max ranges, with different scan times, and different number of max channels and somewhere around half of them don't have precise emitter id capabilities, different generation considerations, different role types, all may or may not matter depending on the situation. Would need to do specific emitter at specific location vs. specific detector sensor at specific location to see if it's a problem or just the nature of the gear, the latter being a very normal thing.

[BHughes]

Like others have said, it is most likely because there is no Iranian ELINT/ESM capable of making the classification. A ground radar is just that - a radar and does not necessarily have an ELINT capability. You would have to see exactly what sensors are listed in the DB for that specific unit. For example, the AN/TPS-43 ground radar does not have an organic passive ELINT capability.

The simple way to test is to add a unit (any unit will do..) to the Iranian side with a modern ELINT/ESM capability and see if that then changes the classification outcome.

[1nutworld]

ORIGINAL: BHughes

Like others have said, it is most likely because there is no Iranian ELINT/ESM capable of making the classification. A ground radar is just that - a radar and does not necessarily have an ELINT capability. You would have to see exactly what sensors are listed in the DB for that specific unit. For example, the AN/TPS-43 ground radar does not have an organic passive ELINT capability.

The simple way to test is to add a unit (any unit will do..) to the Iranian side with a modern ELINT/ESM capability and see if that then changes the classification outcome.

Yep, the more you know, the more you know you don't know. My brain wasn't fully thinking that the radar(s) had the capability to specify the contact. I didn't think that part through well enough. It can detect the contact and know it's there but lacks the ability to classify specifically, something I "thought" I knew about radar. And that is why I posed the question because it didn't make sense to me. Thanks to your reply and others it does now!

[1nutworld]

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

If Iran doesn't have the ELINT equipment to tell between a E-3A or an E-3B or a Wedgetail or whatever - it cannot classify it. A human (in game or in real life) can make the supposition that this is an American E-3 because they know that is likely. But mechanically within the game it can't, because it doesn't have the technology. The system has to work the same for classifying the difference between a MiG-23P and a MiG-23PD or an F-4C from and F-4G.

If it is important in your scenario make a Lua fix with a detect trigger.

BTW! Loved the Northern Fury book! Can't wait for following editions.

What would that Lua fix look like, if you have a moment?