aircraft conversion

[Laits]

Hello everybody.
When I play the Allied side, I always find that I have a lot of old aircrafts (like Lancaster I or B17-F) and that they are not converted at the most recent version.
Do you have the same observation ? How coule I correct this ?

[Denniss]

are your airunits on manual or automatic upgrade? Should be easily visible and changeable in commanders report

[Laits]

I change them manually.
Changing the model of aircraft in an air unit is not the problem. I talk about the mass of older models that wait unused in the pool (the mass of Lancaster I for example).
In WITE they are converted in a newer model (Bf 109 F2 to Bf 109 F4 for instance). In WITW I don't have the impression that it's really done.

[Denniss]

you can still use older aircraft models but you won't see a B-17F to B-17G conversion - too many differences for a simple upgrade.
And there's no need to replace Lanc I with III as there aren't many differences in-game.

[cfulbright]

I think there aren't ANY differences between Lanc I and III, except that the game switches production at some point, and you can end up with not enough older Lancs while waiting for the new ones to build up.

Were there no cases of an RAF air group flying a mix of Lanc I's and III's? The disruption in production in the game just to add two letters to the model numbers seems unnecessary.

Cary

[bomccarthy]

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

I think there aren't ANY differences between Lanc I and III, except that the game switches production at some point, and you can end up with not enough older Lancs while waiting for the new ones to build up.

Were there no cases of an RAF air group flying a mix of Lanc I's and III's? The disruption in production in the game just to add two letters to the model numbers seems unnecessary.

Cary

This illustrates one shortcoming of WITW (and WITP:AE) game engine - conversion from one subtype to the next never took place all at once IRL. Squadrons continued flying missions as the new aircraft arrived in driblets. A U.S. fighter squadron would fly a mix of P-47D-15 and D-25, or P-51B and D during the 1-2 months that they were converting to the new subtype.

It was even more interesting with the Lancaster. IIRC, the main difference between the I and the III was that the III used Packard-built Merlins (which were built to U.S. specs). A Lancaster I used either RR-built Merlins or Ford of England-built Merlins, which were actually built to tighter tolerances than RR engines, so many items like pistons and valves were not interchangeable between the two engine types. However, given the exigencies of maintenance in the field, a particular Lancaster might have a mix of RR and Ford engines, or even a Packard thrown in.

[cfulbright]

Where it becomes an actual issue is when US aircraft designs are replaced with newer models and there's a period between production ending for one and starting for the next model. For example, the P-51B-1 ends production at some point, but P-51B-10's aren't available for 3-4 months later, then that same 3-4 month hiatus for the P-51D. The same happens with the P-47D-15 to P-47D-25 and the P38G/H to P-38J/L upgrades.

If you're not careful, you use up your pool and production of an earlier model, the pool goes dry, then you have no replacements for 3-4 months and your units run low unless you downgrade them.

I've brought this up several times, and the answer seems to be that it's "works as designs", though I can't imagine in real life no P-51's were delivered to England for 3-4 months at a time.

Cary

[Laits]

ORIGINAL: Denniss

you can still use older aircraft models but you won't see a B-17F to B-17G conversion - too many differences for a simple upgrade.
And there's no need to replace Lanc I with III as there aren't many differences in-game.

Thank you for the answer.
It's quite frustrating to have so many unsused aircrafts.

[bomccarthy]

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

Where it becomes an actual issue is when US aircraft designs are replaced with newer models and there's a period between production ending for one and starting for the next model. For example, the P-51B-1 ends production at some point, but P-51B-10's aren't available for 3-4 months later, then that same 3-4 month hiatus for the P-51D. The same happens with the P-47D-15 to P-47D-25 and the P38G/H to P-38J/L upgrades.

If you're not careful, you use up your pool and production of an earlier model, the pool goes dry, then you have no replacements for 3-4 months and your units run low unless you downgrade them.

I've brought this up several times, and the answer seems to be that it's "works as designs", though I can't imagine in real life no P-51's were delivered to England for 3-4 months at a time.

Cary

Representing U.S. production facilities in the game seems a little odd, since that production can't be attacked, nor can aircraft/weapons/supply from the U.S. be interdicted. It would seem simpler to just "dump" the items into the pools based upon their historical arrival dates in England and the Mediterranean. That is essentially what WITP:AE does for aircraft and equipment manufactured in off-map factories (on-map factories continue producing aircraft models until the day of their conversion to the upgraded models)

Incidentally, all P-51B-1s in England were converted to P-51B-10s with the installation of the 87-gal fuselage tank kits by March 1944, while a huge chunk of P-47D-15s were converted to P-47D-22s in English depots with the installation of the paddle-blade propeller kits in April-June 1944. Squadrons would send a few aircraft at a time to a depot, then get the upgraded planes back in a few days (or a couple of weeks, if the depot was backed up).