Bug Movement penalty instead of bonus

[Culthrasa]

Been trying to figure out Engine power/movement, so i've made a few models.
The Hunter I has 827 weight and 800 HP, so it should be underpowered (I know engine design plays a role too).
It has a movement penalty of 40%. This doesn't line up with what is stated in the manual (should be 0% >=90% weight, but under 120% weight)

The Hunter II has 857 weight and 1200 HP, so should be overpowered (design numbers are okeyish and better then the mark I). But instead of the expected movement bonus (+20% bonus >=70% according to the manual), it also has a penalty / no bonus. Even when factoring in the inherent movement penalty of a hvy tank (-20% as stated in design log entry 49). TLDR: I expected a 0% movement modifier and got a -20%.










On a related note: On the forum it is mentioned that underpowering an engine increases it's fuel use. Is that true? If so, is the reverse also true (bigger engine, less weight = less fuel use?)

[zgrssd]

Are you certain about the 827 weight?
The total weight is stated nowhere clearly. And both the engine itself and the chassis add some weight to the whole thing.

[zgrssd]

Let us take a look at a light tank design I got, 2 versions:
Version 1:
50- Chassis
150 - 40 mm Howitzer
275 - 25 mm Steel Plating
320 - Light Diesel Engine
Total: 795

200 Engine Power base
73 Engine Design
94 Structural Design
-50% Movement Penalty.

I get 25.47% Engine Power/Weight ratio. Wich should put it at -70%, just shy of being utterly immobile. Of course I do not know the effective engine power, so it is hard to say what I should plug in there.

[zgrssd]

Version 2:
50 - Chassis
200 - 60mm Howitzer
225 - 5mm Steel Plating
270 - Light Diesel
Total: 745

200 Engine Power base
81 Engine Design
94 Structural Design
-40% Move penalty.

For some reason, the same diesel engine is 50 units ligther this time! Wich actually saves 50 on the total design.
I get 26.84% Engine Power/Weight Ratio, wich again should put it at -70%. No idea why it only has -40%.

[DTurtle]

I looked into this myself. What you are missing is that the engine power is the nominal engine power.

This is modified by the engine design score (as a percentage multiplier).
So looking at the Hunter II:
Nominal Engine Power: 1200
Engine Design: 80
Modified Engine Power = 1200 * 0.8 = 960 power.
Weight is 852.
960 Power/852 Weight => Engine Power is 112% of Weight.
Looking at the table: No move cost modifier. This can be seen as value #48 in the design log.
This is modified by -20 in line #49, because it is a tank destroyer.
So total move modifier is -20%. This can be seen in the unit screen. This also increases fuel usage.

Looking at the Hunter I:
Nominal Engine Power 800.
Engine Design: 79
Modified Engine Power = 800 * 0.79 = 632 power.
Weight is 827.
632 Power/827 Weight => Engine Power is 76% of Weight.
Looking at the table: 20% move cost modifier.
This is then probably also modified by -20% because it is a tank destroyer.
So total move modifier is -40%. This can be seen in the unit screen. This also increases fuel usage.


As can be seen, the effect of the engine design is huge. As a tip/hint: When updating a model, the design value can never go down, only up.

[DTurtle]

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Let us take a look at a light tank design I got, 2 versions:
Version 1:
50- Chassis
150 - 40 mm Howitzer
275 - 25 mm Steel Plating
320 - Light Diesel Engine
Total: 795

200 Engine Power base
73 Engine Design
94 Structural Design
-50% Movement Penalty.

I get 25.47% Engine Power/Weight ratio. Wich should put it at -70%, just shy of being utterly immobile. Of course I do not know the effective engine power, so it is hard to say what I should plug in there.

The weights are the total at each point, not the added weight for each part.
Engine Power: 200
73 Engine design
Modified Engine Power: 200*0.73 = 146
Weight is probably 320.
146/320 = 45.6%
Looking at the table: move cost modifier: 50%
Light tanks do not have any additional modifiers.
So the 50% fits.

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: DTurtle

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Let us take a look at a light tank design I got, 2 versions:
Version 1:
50- Chassis
150 - 40 mm Howitzer
275 - 25 mm Steel Plating
320 - Light Diesel Engine
Total: 795

200 Engine Power base
73 Engine Design
94 Structural Design
-50% Movement Penalty.

I get 25.47% Engine Power/Weight ratio. Wich should put it at -70%, just shy of being utterly immobile. Of course I do not know the effective engine power, so it is hard to say what I should plug in there.

The weights are the total at each point, not the added weight for each part.
Engine Power: 200
73 Engine design
Modified Engine Power: 200*0.73 = 146
Weight is probably 320.
146/320 = 45.6%
Looking at the table: move cost modifier: 50%
Light tanks do not have any additional modifiers.
So the 50% fits.

Ah, okay. Now that finally starts making some sense. I never considered that they would be the "running total" of weight.

So for Nr. 2:
270 Weight
200 Rated Engine Power
81% Engine Design quality
200*81%=162 actuall engine Poer
162/270 = 60%

According to that list that should only be +30%, but I am guessing it is the dreaded "off by one error".

[Culthrasa]

ORIGINAL: DTurtle

I looked into this myself. What you are missing is that the engine power is the nominal engine power.

This is modified by the engine design score (as a percentage multiplier).
So looking at the Hunter II:
Nominal Engine Power: 1200
Engine Design: 80
Modified Engine Power = 1200 * 0.8 = 960 power.
Weight is 852.
960 Power/852 Weight => Engine Power is 112% of Weight.
Looking at the table: No move cost modifier. This can be seen as value #48 in the design log.
This is modified by -20 in line #49, because it is a tank destroyer.
So total move modifier is -20%. This can be seen in the unit screen. This also increases fuel usage.

Looking at the Hunter I:
Nominal Engine Power 800.
Engine Design: 79
Modified Engine Power = 800 * 0.79 = 632 power.
Weight is 827.
632 Power/827 Weight => Engine Power is 76% of Weight.
Looking at the table: 20% move cost modifier.
This is then probably also modified by -20% because it is a tank destroyer.
So total move modifier is -40%. This can be seen in the unit screen. This also increases fuel usage.


As can be seen, the effect of the engine design is huge. As a tip/hint: When updating a model, the design value can never go down, only up.

Dohhh! That's what I was missing...