Dive bombers in a port raid

pfnognoff · Post by **pfnognoff** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:16 am

Do dive bombers ever score a hit in a port attack? In all my previous carrier based port attacks, I saw Kates scoring with 250kg bombs, but all Vals managed was to get themselves shot down and decrease their morale. Was it just my luck or should I avoid using them in this role?

Philwd · Post by **Philwd** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:32 am

I can tell you from pleasurable personal experience Vals make nice new skylights in carriers sitting in port.

Especially in Noumea.

Quark

pfnognoff · Post by **pfnognoff** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:57 pm

That is encouraging! Thanks.

I was worried because on the open sea Kates get sloughtered by AA, and Vals slightly less. While port raiding, the tables turned and Vals get sloughtered and Kates just slightly damaged. I'll keep trying, I guess I'll have to start my own one-on-one testing thingy like everybody else...

Philwd · Post by **Philwd** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:42 am

Was you attack a port attack or naval? In port ships(ie disbanded) have their AA halved IIRC. BUT if you are attacking TF in a port hex then the AA is normal and you won't get as many hits.

Quark

pfnognoff · Post by **pfnognoff** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:14 am

The attack was port. The screen was definatelly "a port from the air through the looking glass". Messaes that were reported as the attack went on, allways mentioned Kates as attacking and scoring 250kg bomb hits on enemy CAs.

pfnognoff · Post by **pfnognoff** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:16 am

There were also messages about Vals attacking and getting shot at and damaged, just no hits from them.

Philwd · Post by **Philwd** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:56 am

Well then I don't know. The port attacks I've done actually the Vals attacked while the Kates dropped bombs on the port facilities. I attack from 10 hexes away so I won't see Kates torpedoing ships in harbors where it wasn't possible.

Keep trying. Its great fun to catch the USN carriers just sitting at their berths like beached whales.

Quark

Tanaka · Post by **Tanaka** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 1:25 am

i have seen this happen to me as well. i think it might have something to do with altitude???

pfnognoff · Post by **pfnognoff** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:14 am

Yesterday I had a chance to test this again in one of my PBEMs. This is the result:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/30/42

Weather: Thunderstorms

Air attack on Noumea , at 52,67

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 14
D3A Val x 35
B5N Kate x 60

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 2 destroyed
D3A Val x 3 damaged
B5N Kate x 1 destroyed
B5N Kate x 2 damaged

LT M. Yamaguchi of EI-2 Daitai is KILLED

Allied Ships
CVE Long Island, Bomb hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
AK Bellatrix, Bomb hits 1
AP President Adams, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Allied ground losses:
Men lost 16
Guns lost 1

Port hits 5
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 2

Attacking Level Bombers:
12 x B5N Kate at 8000 feet
23 x B5N Kate at 8000 feet
24 x B5N Kate at 8000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hits were distributed as follows:
1st group of Kates - 1 hit
2nd group of Kates - 4 hits
3rd group of Kates - 4 hits

Vals, that are not listed in the report, came in two groups from 15.000 feet:
1st group of Vals - 2 hits
2nd group of Vals - 0 hits

This time I had increased the height for Vals from 10.000 to 15.000 and they managed to score. Still they had greater loss ratio then Kates. Tanaka, you could be correct, but further examination is still required

Tanaka · Post by **Tanaka** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 2:20 am

pfnognoff wrote:Yesterday I had a chance to test this again in one of my PBEMs. This is the result:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/30/42

Weather: Thunderstorms

Air attack on Noumea , at 52,67

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 14
D3A Val x 35
B5N Kate x 60

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 2 destroyed
D3A Val x 3 damaged
B5N Kate x 1 destroyed
B5N Kate x 2 damaged

LT M. Yamaguchi of EI-2 Daitai is KILLED

Allied Ships
CVE Long Island, Bomb hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
AK Bellatrix, Bomb hits 1
AP President Adams, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Allied ground losses:
Men lost 16
Guns lost 1

Port hits 5
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 2

Attacking Level Bombers:
12 x B5N Kate at 8000 feet
23 x B5N Kate at 8000 feet
24 x B5N Kate at 8000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hits were distributed as follows:
1st group of Kates - 1 hit
2nd group of Kates - 4 hits
3rd group of Kates - 4 hits

Vals, that are not listed in the report, came in two groups from 15.000 feet:
1st group of Vals - 2 hits
2nd group of Vals - 0 hits

This time I had increased the height for Vals from 10.000 to 15.000 and they managed to score. Still they had greater loss ratio then Kates. Tanaka, you could be correct, but further examination is still required

I have had several port attacks look like this report. What I dont understand is why the reports dont list the vals if they being used in the attack. Thats what lead me to believe they were not being used. Also in the attack animations only kates are shown as getting hits. Ill try to retest this in a game as well.

bilbow · Post by **bilbow** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 5:57 am

The report only lists level bombers, which the Kate evediently were. Probably operating at extreme range.

pfnognoff · Post by **pfnognoff** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:04 pm

bilbow wrote:The report only lists level bombers, which the Kate evediently were. Probably operating at extreme range.

They were attacking from 8 hexes away, therefore they were droping bombs as level bombers. Will they use a torpedo in a port raid if I gather enough courage to sneak under 7 hexes?

Tanaka · Post by **Tanaka** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:53 pm

Well it seems that Vals do actually attack the ports but for some reason the Vals are never listed on the Combat Reports. Anyone know why this is??? Only Kates will be listed if they attack with Vals and if Vals attack alone they are not listed at all....

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/16/42

Weather: Overcast

Air attack on Noumea , at 52,67

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
D3A Val x 18
B5N Kate x 9

Allied aircraft
P-400 Airacobra x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 1 destroyed
D3A Val x 5 damaged

LCDR R.Okano of EI-2 Daitai bails out and is CAPTURED

Allied Ships
AP Esperance Bay, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Port hits 1
Port supply hits 1

Attacking Level Bombers:
4 x B5N Kate at 20000 feet
5 x B5N Kate at 20000 feet

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/15/42

Weather: Overcast

Air attack on Noumea , at 52,67

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
D3A Val x 18

Allied aircraft
P-400 Airacobra x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 7 damaged

Allied Ships
AP Esperance Bay, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
SC 638, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Port hits 3
Port fuel hits 1

pfnognoff · Post by **pfnognoff** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:05 pm

It is like bilbow said, only level bombers are shown in the combat report. Dive bombers are never listed there, not even in carrier battles. I think straffing attacks are also listed in the combat report, but I'm not sure...