I just don't get it (maybe it's a female limitation)

[MrsWargamer]

Why the fascination with LOSERS.

That's what the Confederates and the Nazis are. L.O.S.E.R.S

They are not cool. They Lost. BIG.

Why do we consider in 'ordinary' to laugh at the French Military and poke fun, but not the German Military, who lost both WW1 and WW2?

I don't understand the attraction of German paraphernalia and their tanks weren't perfect eh. Why the obsession with big cats? The Tiger was at best a rolling pillbox. Over-engineered, too costly, too slow. The Germans COULD have made a great deal more Panzer IV chassis. They were a good tank. The Panther entered the battle as a buggy prone to burst into flames rushed idea too. The Jagd panther was not a better idea than a lot Jagd panzer IVs.

Hitler had a great option in the ME 262 in 43, but nope, he stupidly used it as a fast bomber.
Stalingrad was a very dumb way to throw away a veteran army.
Not doing Africa right, cost the Axis the war.

Hitler likely cost the Germans the war. It's fortunate that unskilled ego thought he was a genius.
He was a great orator, nothing much past that though.
Or put a better way, he was all talk.

When I look at the US Civil War, I see the same thing. They were great out of the starting gate, and then they blow it.

They are LOSERS.

And yet they are popular with some. I don't see why.
It is because the fans of the south, and inherently losers?
I can't be blamed for making that conclusion.

I don't desire this to be political. I'm trying to see it through history, and understand, what drives a person to pick the German tank model, why a person wants to put a Confederate flag on their vehicle. Why they choose SS whatever in their forum identity. Who wants to be associated with the losers?

We need the historical opposition to design a game experience. Impossible to play WW2 games, and no enemy side. Interesting to see if we could outperform the performance of that side in a simulation. Personally, I think portraying Hitler's bone headed decisions is quite the challenge.

Some of the Generals on these sides of the conflict were quite good at their job.
But politicians often put their soldiers in impossible situations.

Still, the losing side is what it is.
And we all know Patton's thoughts on what he thought of losers.
He was of the opinion Americans worship winners.
So why the obsession with losers?

I don't like revisionist history actions.
Not sure how some personalities from the losing side managed to get their names where they did.
And here in Canada, we have our share of examples that in the light of day, don't seem wise.

When I wargame, I want to be a Rommel, or a Patton. I think MacArthur was an arrogant swine. I think Halsey was easy to bait. I think Monty was too slow. My favourite unit was the Devil's brigade. My favourite piece of hardware was the F4U Corsair, or the 17pdr. But in gamey terms, I really like the British Bishop. It's such an obnoxious unit in Battle Academy.

I'm proud of Canada's military past. We moved furthest inland on D-Day. We went up against the Hitler Youth in Normandy, and we kicked their asses. We fought the German paras in Ortona, and they got smashed there too. When you fight a Caadian, you bring your A game, or we kick you butt.

I have zero desire to champion losers.

So why does anyone like the Confederates/Nazis?

[Lobster]

Neither WW2 Germany nor the U.S. Civil War South had the industry and manpower to accomplish what needed to be done. Very simple, not rocket science. So if you start trouble by yourself and a knife against five guys with guns you can be a LOSER too. [:D]

[MrsWargamer]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Neither WW2 Germany nor the U.S. Civil War South had the industry and manpower to accomplish what needed to be done. Very simple, not rocket science. So if you start trouble by yourself and a knife against five guys with guns you can be a LOSER too. [:D]

Good analogy

[TheGrayMouser]

My question for you is would you lump say the American plains Indians or the ancient Gauls into your category of “losers”.

[UP844]

I think playing the historical losers is more challenging than playing the victorious side: as a consequence, even obtaining a marginally better result gives the player much more satisfaction than replaying history and winning for the same reasons the historical winner did.

[Blond_Knight]

"why a person wants to put a Confederate flag on their vehicle."

Because our ancestors fought and died for that flag.
Make no mistake to have a United States we had to lose. To have a strong Nation we had to lose. Nobody honoring their ancestry is pro-slavery.
But we didnt want the Federal Govt telling us what to do.

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[Halsey]

It's an underdog thing.

To be out of supply, out gunned, out manned, out maneuvered, out of position, desperate and surrounded.
Yet in spite of all these being against you, there is a chance of survival and possible victory.
Those in that situation usually perform at their best and highest determination in courage and bravery.

These are the actions that you'd want to participate in.
These are the actions that will be remembered.
These actions will give you a place in history.
Whether you win or lose, you will be remembered.[:D]

The list is endless, of nations, peoples, armies, navies that were seemingly overwhelmed, yet prevailed.
It's actually a story of mankind and it's will to overcome and survive.
A story of all of us on this small planet.[;)]

[Curtis Lemay]

One historical side is always a loser in any wargame. (Discounting the odd draw, of course).

[RangerJoe]

MacArthur may have been arrogant but he was very good.

Halsey may have been easy to bait but he was following orders. The aftermath of the Turkey Shoot led in part to his distraction. He had also sent a lot of carriers for replenishment and rest. He and his staff had recently been ill as well.

[terminator]

It seems to me that the Germans were not always L.O.S.E.R.S ?

Nazis = members of Hitler’s National Socialist Party.

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

So why does anyone like the Confederates/Nazis?

I remember hearing from radio something about Union general having all the advantages for an attack and decisive victory, but he didn't have the balls to do so, and thus Confederation got time to fortify and reinforce. Nazis had cool tanks. As you say, Panzer IV was hella good, and Germany had it from start of the war. I also remember Nicholas Moran the Chieftain saying that Tiger was a good tank for what it was designed for. That is, to support attacks against fortifications, like Sherman Jumbo. How reliable Jumbo was again?

[edit]
To further add, I'm from Finland, Germany was our ally in the war, so there is that. We lost too, but not before giving Red Army a bloody nose [:D]

[rico21]

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Why the fascination with LOSERS.

That's what the Confederates and the Nazis are. L.O.S.E.R.S

They are not cool. They Lost. BIG.

Why do we consider in 'ordinary' to laugh at the French Military and poke fun, but not the German Military, who lost both WW1 and WW2?

Loser lives matter, Mrs Wargamer.

[MrRoadrunner]

George Washington was a loser?
Spartans were losers?
Romans were losers?
Poles are losers?
American Indians were losers?
Jews were losers?
Arabs were losers?
French were losers(more than once)?
Brits were losers?

Where does it end?
The lens of history is always viewed and written by winners?

My wife is of Irish and German decent. I tell her she always starts fights she can never win. [8|] I'd never call her a loser. [X(]

Nor would I compare the American South to Nazis. But, hey, go with it if you want. You have the glasses on that you want to wear?

RR

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

So why does anyone like the Confederates/Nazis?

That is, to support attacks against fortifications, like Sherman Jumbo. How reliable Jumbo was again?

The Sherman tank was very reliable. Didn't even have to carry a spare transmission on the back of it. [;)]

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen
[edit]
To further add, I'm from Finland, Germany was our ally in the war, so there is that. We lost too, but not before giving Red Army a bloody nose [:D]

Finland made it abundantly clear they were a co-belligerent, not an ally.

Not every German was a Nazi and not every Nazi was a German.

[RangerJoe]

In every athletic contest with an elimination type tournement/post season, every team but one that makes it to the tournement/post season loses their last game. That does not mean that they should not even try.

As far as I can recall, Germany never won a war.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

In every athletic contest with an elimination type tournement/post season, every team but one that makes it to the tournement/post season loses their last game. That does not mean that they should not even try.

As far as I can recall, Germany never won a war.

Germany as a nation called Germany? Or Germans in general. Franco-Prussian war comes to mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Prussian_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_w ... ng_Germany

Going back to Prussia (East Germany et al) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_and_ ... ng_Prussia

[Simulacra53]

Heads you win, tails I lose.

Flame bait first class.
I don’t like barbie dolls, can’t understand why anyone beyond the age of 12 would like to play with them.

[:D]

[Mobeer]

A big part of the appeal is knowing that each unit is precious.

Knowing how each precious each elite unit you commanded was made Panzer General a better game than Allied General. Likewise I preferred playing Japanese in War in the Pacific to playing Allies, because losses are so much harder to take. If you lose a US destroyer you know many more are coming, but losing a Japanese destroyer is a big thing.

[MrsWargamer]

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

Heads you win, tails I lose.

Flame bait first class.
I don’t like barbie dolls, can’t understand why anyone beyond the age of 12 would like to play with them.

[:D]

It is not my desire to bicker, so I will let everyone have their say and leave them be.

But I can't understand why anyone past age 12 would stop playing with Barbies
I mean, that's like asking men why they make models. Aren't those meant for kids?