When to build 2nd SHQ

[W8taminute]

Excellent work Justus2 and thank you for sharing your results. The two take-aways I gather from your experience is:

1. The zone where the 2nd SHQ is located should be self sufficient in material needs and LIS points.
2. One SHQ is eventually going to be overburdened by supplying it's territorial needs to the point where there will be few LIS points left to get replacements and supplies to the units on the front line. A second SHQ alleviates this stress.

You have obviously succeeded in understanding the logistics system enough to be able to implement a second SHQ. The rest of us need to get comfortable with logistics before attempting to build a second SHQ.

[Tomn]

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

ORIGINAL: Tomn

It might be less of a strain if there was a sub-SHQ formation of some kind, a local collection and distribution point. Like, you have a network of zones in a distant area send their supplies to the sub-SHQ, which redistributes to the zones and units in the zones as needed, and then sends the surplus to the SHQ while requesting necessary supplies from it. Would allow for a finer-grained and more logical supply network rather than either having everything centralized in one gigantic network or else splitting into the Western and Eastern Roman Empire. On the other hand it'd probably increase turn processing times which are already pretty long.

That is a Rail Connection with a Truckstop at the end. [:)]

No it isn't? Unless I'm badly misunderstanding something but my understanding is that regardless of whether you use rail or trucks all zone production flows back to the SHQ and then flows back out again. I'm talking about having a local distribution unit where nearby zones can transfer to the subunit instead of the SHQ and then have the subunit redistribute local needs and surpluses before needing to send everything back to the SHQ.

I.E. Currently if Zone A produces food but needs rare earths, and if Zone B is right next to it and produces rare earths while needing food, and both zones need metals but are separated from the capital by Zone C, then what happens is that Zones A and B both send their food and rare earths up the line to the capital and then have the food and rare earths come back down the line again to A and B along with a supply of metal, badly stressing the supply lines along Zone C.

I'm suggesting that you create a local distribution subunit that you place in, say, Zone A so that Zone A sends its food to it, and then Zone B sends its rare earths to it, and then the subunit sends out the food to Zone B and the rare earths to Zone A and then passes the surplus on to the SHQ while pulling metals back to send to Zone A and B, thus reducing the strain on the logistics line in Zone C.

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: Tomn

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

ORIGINAL: Tomn

It might be less of a strain if there was a sub-SHQ formation of some kind, a local collection and distribution point. Like, you have a network of zones in a distant area send their supplies to the sub-SHQ, which redistributes to the zones and units in the zones as needed, and then sends the surplus to the SHQ while requesting necessary supplies from it. Would allow for a finer-grained and more logical supply network rather than either having everything centralized in one gigantic network or else splitting into the Western and Eastern Roman Empire. On the other hand it'd probably increase turn processing times which are already pretty long.

That is a Rail Connection with a Truckstop at the end. [:)]

No it isn't? Unless I'm badly misunderstanding something but my understanding is that regardless of whether you use rail or trucks all zone production flows back to the SHQ and then flows back out again.

If a train line to the SHQ does not allow you to act as if the SHQ was right under you, something is really wrong with your train line!

That is the point of trains:
Connecting cities that are really far away to the SHQ, with a high bandwidth connetion. Until there is no functional difference between that city and the one with the physical SHQ in it.

[Tomn]

Although "over-engineer your logistical line" is certainly a solution, you can't deny that it's a bit odd and wasteful for two zones right next to each other to send their supplies all the way across the planet and then back towards them again, sucking up logistics capacity both ways and multiplied by however many zones run along the way doing the same thing, plus possible combat supply needs at the end of the line. Sure, you COULD build a million train stations and upgrade them as heavily as possible if you have the resources, population and time for it, you wouldn't need to in the first place if there were more actual local distribution going on. Thus the success some folks in this thread have had in relieving stressed logistical lines by setting up a second SHQ.

[Justus2]

ORIGINAL: Tomn

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

ORIGINAL: Tomn

It might be less of a strain if there was a sub-SHQ formation of some kind, a local collection and distribution point. Like, you have a network of zones in a distant area send their supplies to the sub-SHQ, which redistributes to the zones and units in the zones as needed, and then sends the surplus to the SHQ while requesting necessary supplies from it. Would allow for a finer-grained and more logical supply network rather than either having everything centralized in one gigantic network or else splitting into the Western and Eastern Roman Empire. On the other hand it'd probably increase turn processing times which are already pretty long.

That is a Rail Connection with a Truckstop at the end. [:)]

No it isn't? Unless I'm badly misunderstanding something but my understanding is that regardless of whether you use rail or trucks all zone production flows back to the SHQ and then flows back out again. I'm talking about having a local distribution unit where nearby zones can transfer to the subunit instead of the SHQ and then have the subunit redistribute local needs and surpluses before needing to send everything back to the SHQ.

I.E. Currently if Zone A produces food but needs rare earths, and if Zone B is right next to it and produces rare earths while needing food, and both zones need metals but are separated from the capital by Zone C, then what happens is that Zones A and B both send their food and rare earths up the line to the capital and then have the food and rare earths come back down the line again to A and B along with a supply of metal, badly stressing the supply lines along Zone C.

I'm suggesting that you create a local distribution subunit that you place in, say, Zone A so that Zone A sends its food to it, and then Zone B sends its rare earths to it, and then the subunit sends out the food to Zone B and the rare earths to Zone A and then passes the surplus on to the SHQ while pulling metals back to send to Zone A and B, thus reducing the strain on the logistics line in Zone C.

So I think the 2nd SHQ can give you the result you are looking for, with minimal interference to the rest of your logistics system. You can tailor the 2nd SHQ to which zones, and which units, report to it. If you just want something to relieve the strain of resources going to and from the capital zone, you can set a number of connected zones to the 2nd SHQ, where they can collect and distribute resources to one another, and assign very few (if any) units to it. Then the 1st SHQ's rail/road bandwidth can focus on supporting the units in the field.

[Zyphtan]

I havn't needed a second SHQ but if I remember correctly either from vic or the manual says something to the effect of adding a second SHQ can relative the stress on your network because resources dont need to travel too and from as far.

I think resources follow the same route that the SHQ displays in it's supply tab, ie. SHQ > Zone then units then Zone > SHQ. I have noticed this from spending to much IP on units and not have enough for buildings but still producing more then enough.

As others have mentioned water, fuel, energy, and IP travel for free. I did some testing mostly with infantry. 100 Recruits take 5 points of LIS that can really add up and if you are like me and have a problem with pop not being enough to really upgrade some buildings like crazy. I usually get to the point where I dont have enough pop to expand buildings well. Never really ran into a problem with LIS once I got the hang of the system increasing truck stations at the cap helps give even points to roads to other cities and then build Rails is a priority to other cities they dont really get a bottle neck if it is upgraded.

In my most recent game I ran into a problem with a large stretch of mountain making it impossible to build rails. Costing something like 21k or more. If I can't find a way to build a rail to it ill be building an SHQ sooner or later when I start expanding past the city on the other side of the mountain range.

From my games and from what I've played and seen it seems like there is a reason to build one if you really cant build rails and more trucks stations.

Taking strain off your logistics network. I see alot of stock in cities sometimes. Doesn't help you I believe I think it is all SHQ > something or back to it. Do cities use local supplies?

[JDBSM]

Do cities use local supplies?

As far as I can tell. When we disband an SHQ, its resources are given to the city. I created a second SHQ, sent some food to it, disbanded it, closed the farms, and sealed the city off using traffic lights. Advancing turns shows the city consuming food from its own stockpile.

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: JDBSM

Do cities use local supplies?

As far as I can tell. When we disband an SHQ, its resources are given to the city. I created a second SHQ, sent some food to it, disbanded it, closed the farms, and sealed the city off using traffic lights. Advancing turns shows the city consuming food from its own stockpile.

While "Stockpile Capacity" is another thing that travels for free, it still needs a Logistics connection to the SHQ it is transfered to.

Without one, the Zone propably had to keep 100% of it's storage.

[arvcran2]

An interesting thread this is ... *YODA style voice*



Some things that come to mind outside of the logistical aspect: are the strategic and political aspects: Centralized resource control, resource control security, and resource control risk management should be part of the "it depends ..." analysis.

[solops]

This thread should be stickied and Vic should take some time to verify and clarify some of the information here.

And merge it with this thread:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... d#p4751871