Refuel options with CS Task Forces and Waypoints

[Lowpe]

I started testing how the refuel options for CS task forces work, with waypoint refueling options chosen for the destination hex.

So: Home Port Palembang. Destination Port: Singapore. Waypoint set to Singapore.

Options:

Master Task Force options: Full, Tactical, Minimal, Do Not Refuel
Waypoint options: Full, Tactical, Minimal, Do Not Refuel

Anybody know how this will work out? I searched for Alfred's posts on the subject, but no joy, I did only look for 5 minutes though.[;)]

[RangerJoe]

You don't need to set the waypoint to Singapore if you want the TF to refuel at Palembang. If you want to travel through base hexes, you those as your waypoints. Have minefields and possibly SCs there on an ASW patrol. Set "do not refuel" at the waypoints so they won't waste time there. Have them return by the same route if you have the minefields and ASW TFs there.

Full refuel - a full load of fuel
Tactical refuel - the minimum needed to get there plus 25% for tactical maneuvaring
Minimal refuel - just the fuel needed with no extras.

That is just off the top of my head without looking things up in the manual.

Don't forget to have an AMc at those bases in case the enemy lays mines there.

[BBfanboy]

I use waypoints for CS TFs with no problem. I usually change the default Master TF refueling option to "Minimal" if I do not want it to pull fuel from the destination port. I check TFs on my around-the-map routine and fuel up the TF when it gets back to Home Port. If it does not have enough range to get back without refueling, I set an enroute refueling port and set "minimal refuel". The AI treats that as enough fuel to finish the round trip plus a small amount (10%?). This is handy in the Aleutians and for anything going past PH.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I use waypoints for CS TFs with no problem. I usually change the default Master TF refueling option to "Minimal" if I do not want it to pull fuel from the destination port. I check TFs on my around-the-map routine and fuel up the TF when it gets back to Home Port. If it does not have enough range to get back without refueling, I set an enroute refueling port and set "minimal refuel". The AI treats that as enough fuel to finish the round trip plus a small amount (10%?). This is handy in the Aleutians and for anything going past PH.

I can't tell you how many task forces set on minimal or tactical refuel, fill all the way up at least for Japan.

What I am curious here is will the waypoint setting fuel settings override the master task force settings or vice versa? I chose Palembang to Singers because it is short and won't take that many days to figure out how the system basically works, and hopefully I can extrapolate it to longer distances.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You don't need to set the waypoint to Singapore if you want the TF to refuel at Palembang. If you want to travel through base hexes, you those as your waypoints. Have minefields and possibly SCs there on an ASW patrol. Set "do not refuel" at the waypoints so they won't waste time there. Have them return by the same route if you have the minefields and ASW TFs there.

Full refuel - a full load of fuel
Tactical refuel - the minimum needed to get there plus 25% for tactical maneuvaring
Minimal refuel - just the fuel needed with no extras.

That is just off the top of my head without looking things up in the manual.

Don't forget to have an AMc at those bases in case the enemy lays mines there.

You misunderstand my purpose.

I want the task force to leave fuel rich origination port, arrive at destination point and not refuel or only minimally, and then return to origination port and refuel while using the CS system.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You don't need to set the waypoint to Singapore if you want the TF to refuel at Palembang. If you want to travel through base hexes, you those as your waypoints. Have minefields and possibly SCs there on an ASW patrol. Set "do not refuel" at the waypoints so they won't waste time there. Have them return by the same route if you have the minefields and ASW TFs there.

Full refuel - a full load of fuel
Tactical refuel - the minimum needed to get there plus 25% for tactical maneuvaring
Minimal refuel - just the fuel needed with no extras.

That is just off the top of my head without looking things up in the manual.

Don't forget to have an AMc at those bases in case the enemy lays mines there.

You misunderstand my purpose.

I want the task force to leave fuel rich origination port, arrive at destination point and not refuel or only minimally, and then return to origination port and refuel while using the CS system.

I believe that I understood that. But for longer distances, check the distance traveled between ports, the lowest endurance for the ships in the convoy, and you will be able to see if you need to refuel for the round trip, then make the refueling choice. You should not have to refuel between the two ports selected so you could try the "do not refuel" at the way point at Singapore just to see if what you posted works as you desire. But check the convoy before it gets back to Palembang and refuels.

[Lowpe]

Ah, but you see, I want to set them up once and then forget them, never to see a click again for years.[:)]

[Lowpe]

Some basic findings so far.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Ah, but you see, I want to set them up once and then forget them, never to see a click again for years.[:)]

Then set it up, check it and if it is doing what you want, leave it alone until a SCTF wipes it out.

[BBfanboy]

I vaguely recall duplicate unit artwork problems happening a few years ago after a patch or a Windows update. IIRC there was a switch that fixed that - perhaps the -dd_sw one?

As for the tanker refueling issues - I wonder if having the destination and the waypoint the same are confusing the AI? Perhaps try the waypoint at the island below Singers? The waypoint and other routing instructions should not disappear on the return trip.

If you are delivering fuel to Singers, they should not whine about you taking a few drams to avoid having to monitor the TF again. Set it to Full Refuel and weigh anchor!

[Alfred]

Lowpe,
 
You are over complicating this.
 
1.  The refuel conditions for a CS convoy are different to those of a normal human controlled TF.
 
2.  The "Do Not Refuel" toggle is not active at the home port of a CS convoy.
 
3.  A CS convoy will auto refuel at it's home port provided it can dock.
 
 
Consequently all you have to do is:
 
(a) set up your CS convoy with Palembang as the Home port.
 
(b) toggle the CS convoy to not refuel
 
(c) set Singapore as the destination
 
The CS convoy should refuel once it returns to Palembang.
 
 
Generally speaking, a CS convoy should not be routed through terra firma waypoints , especially if there is any lingering at the terra firma waypoint.
 
Alfred

[fcooke]

Alfred showing off his Latin skills.....[:'(]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Lowpe,

You are over complicating this.

1.  The refuel conditions for a CS convoy are different to those of a normal human controlled TF.

2.  The "Do Not Refuel" toggle is not active at the home port of a CS convoy.

3.  A CS convoy will auto refuel at it's home port provided it can dock.


Consequently all you have to do is:

(a) set up your CS convoy with Palembang as the Home port.

(b) toggle the CS convoy to not refuel

(c) set Singapore as the destination

The CS convoy should refuel once it returns to Palembang.


Generally speaking, a CS convoy should not be routed through terra firma waypoints , especially if there is any lingering at the terra firma waypoint.

Alfred

Thanks Alfred.[&o]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I vaguely recall duplicate unit artwork problems happening a few years ago after a patch or a Windows update. IIRC there was a switch that fixed that - perhaps the -dd_sw one?

As for the tanker refueling issues - I wonder if having the destination and the waypoint the same are confusing the AI? Perhaps try the waypoint at the island below Singers? The waypoint and other routing instructions should not disappear on the return trip.

If you are delivering fuel to Singers, they should not whine about you taking a few drams to avoid having to monitor the TF again. Set it to Full Refuel and weigh anchor!

Using -dd_sw. I think it is because I force a a non standard resolution in windowed mode. Not a biggy.


I picked Palembang/Singers because it is a short route and easy to check BBfanboy, but I wanted to exercise greater control over refueling of CS convoys on longer routes for a variety of reasons.

I never was satisfied with my master task force settings on CS convoys, for example here is a picture of a slew of CS convoys all set to minimal refueling and making the run from Fusan to Honshu. As Alfred points out, they ignore the minimal refuel and fill up at Fusan (home port) - which I don't want them to do.

I kind of wanted to accomplish something that now seems impossible, by setting the master task force to do not refuel, give them a way point at say Shimoneski with a minimal refuel, and then have them unload at Fukuoka. Of course I am extending their round trip from 6 hexes to 8 hexes, which is less than optimal, but a small price to pay in game terms from a working magic highway. But better yet, on longer CS routes I might add a close by port to act as a refueling station and only add a small fraction of distance to the route, keep the convoy minimally refueled and not drain home port.

Well, now, I guess I will get to experience Allied fuel levels now in my fresh pbem. That will be unique for me.[:)]

[PaxMondo]

I use wp's all the time for CS with great success. Don't overlook the little box titled something like "use same path on return".

I can get my convoys to do everything I can imagine, follow the exact route I want, re-fuel exactly where I want, load and unload what I want for both trips, etc.

One of the later updates allowed for missions speed instead of just cruise which cut a lot of losses.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I use wp's all the time for CS with great success. Don't overlook the little box titled something like "use same path on return".

I can get my convoys to do everything I can imagine, follow the exact route I want, re-fuel exactly where I want, load and unload what I want for both trips, etc.

One of the later updates allowed for missions speed instead of just cruise which cut a lot of losses.

How can you avoid re-fueling at home port? I can't for the life of me figure it out.[&:]

I have no problems with waypoints & return trip routing & speed, except for when waypoints coincide with the destination hex.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I use wp's all the time for CS with great success. Don't overlook the little box titled something like "use same path on return".

I can get my convoys to do everything I can imagine, follow the exact route I want, re-fuel exactly where I want, load and unload what I want for both trips, etc.

One of the later updates allowed for missions speed instead of just cruise which cut a lot of losses.

How can you avoid re-fueling at home port? I can't for the life of me figure it out.[&:]

I have no problems with waypoints & return trip routing & speed, except for when waypoints coincide with the destination hex.

Have no fuel at the home port.

That is unlikely to happen. The waypoints that I suggested would be for the longer routes where you want the convoys to get to protected ports along the way and be under ASW air. If ship is damaged and not split off, then it can be removed and receive some repairs at that port.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I use wp's all the time for CS with great success. Don't overlook the little box titled something like "use same path on return".

I can get my convoys to do everything I can imagine, follow the exact route I want, re-fuel exactly where I want, load and unload what I want for both trips, etc.

One of the later updates allowed for missions speed instead of just cruise which cut a lot of losses.

How can you avoid re-fueling at home port? I can't for the life of me figure it out.[&:]

I have no problems with waypoints & return trip routing & speed, except for when waypoints coincide with the destination hex.

Choose the end where you want the re-fueling to ocurr to be the homeport (if it is one of the ends). in your case, it would mean flip the convoy to home port at the other side.

EX: Palembang is the home port for the convoy, not Nagasaki.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I use wp's all the time for CS with great success. Don't overlook the little box titled something like "use same path on return".

I can get my convoys to do everything I can imagine, follow the exact route I want, re-fuel exactly where I want, load and unload what I want for both trips, etc.

One of the later updates allowed for missions speed instead of just cruise which cut a lot of losses.

How can you avoid re-fueling at home port? I can't for the life of me figure it out.[&:]

I have no problems with waypoints & return trip routing & speed, except for when waypoints coincide with the destination hex.

Choose the end where you want the re-fueling to ocurr to be the homeport (if it is one of the ends). in your case, it would mean flip the convoy to home port at the other side.

EX: Palembang is the home port for the convoy, not Nagasaki.

Ah, but you see you are still filling up the tanks at one end or the other. And if you flip them, you are must carry something both ways.

I guess I am just trying to really conserve the fuel too much.

[RangerJoe]

You are better filling up from the source (Palembang) and not to where you are shipping it to.

Wouldn't it be better to ship to Singapore and then have a larger and better protected convoy moving the fuel from Singapore?