[1.04b7] Issues with militia units and designs

[demiare]

1) Militia happily creating multiple "Mobile Battalions" that consist from 10 x Irregular Artillery. How they could be called "Mobile", huh? Unit administration show 100% integrity for them and there is no mention in "Urgent Issues" about SHQ failing to replenish troops (even if such units are recently created).

2) Management screen mode - Model&Quality management. Tech "Armor Piercing" is shown to be applied to Motorized Transport. Are they have a secret kamikaze attack? [:D]

3) Starting buggy state to use "Medium Diesel Engine" but have 0.9 fuel consumption per hex. This is a stat of Light Diesel Engine...

I allow myself a small suggestion here too. Include sum of units remaining in service for each model. It's very hard to see - do I upgraded every unit or still some with obsolete model as currently I need to list several tabs with all my regiments. It will be super cool to see total "models in service" to decide quickly can I obsolete it already or not.

[bvoid]

I've also seen strangeness lately with militia units.

In 1.4b7 - noticed that some of my militia units got reinforced and lost their mobility bonus. The system needs to check number of trucks vs number of units that need transport.

[Malevolence]

I believe they are ad hoc OOB. I have been able to use the Transfer/BG to create anything, so long as the transfer was militia to militia. Militia may be a special case of unit.

[demiare]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

I believe they are ad hoc OOB.

No, there is at least one bug with militia now - it's not only making crazy "mobile battalions" but also spawn a lot of militia unit in SHQ and don't use them in next few turns (they stay here, no changes in existing militia units while they all sit in capital and no messages about "failed to reinforce"). Something is clearly broken.

[Jdane]

I noticed that too.

Militia units seem to each have a specific TOE which you can check upon in the Unit Admin panel. In on of my current games, the Zone Militia spawned an RPG Militia sub-unit which stayed in the SHQ forever because none of the existing militia units missed any such sub-unit (they did miss other types though, such as riflemen).

It might be linked to the SHQ failing to retrieve sub-units in excess after a formation has been upgraded or downgraded to a different OOB that I seem to have noticed. It looks like there's some king of glitch going on with the reinforcements code.

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: demiare

No, there is at least one bug with militia now - it's not only making crazy "mobile battalions" but also spawn a lot of militia unit in SHQ and don't use them in next few turns (they stay here, no changes in existing militia units while they all sit in capital and no messages about "failed to reinforce"). Something is clearly broken.

ORIGINAL: Jdane

I noticed that too.

Militia units seem to each have a specific TOE which you can check upon in the Unit Admin panel. In on of my current games, the Zone Militia spawned an RPG Militia sub-unit which stayed in the SHQ forever because none of the existing militia units missed any such sub-unit (they did miss other types though, such as riflemen).

It might be linked to the SHQ failing to retrieve sub-units in excess after a formation has been upgraded or downgraded to a different OOB that I seem to have noticed. It looks like there's some king of glitch going on with the reinforcements code.

It's an interesting issue. Did you try placing a militia unit in the same hex as the SHQ and using Transfer/BG? If so, was it giving that TO&E error message there too?

I'm suggesting hacks. I've expressed my feelings about the TO&E and OOB QOL elsewhere.

[demiare]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

It's an interesting issue. Did you try placing a militia unit in the same hex as the SHQ and using Transfer/BG? If so, was it giving that TO&E error message there too?

Thank you for suggestion. Tested it now - I'm unable to put any militia units from SHQ into that "Mobile battalion" as "No target Unit TOE match".

Now I'm absolute sure there is not only bug but two:
1) Messed TOE for some militia units ("Mobile battalion" especially)
2) Militia units created and stuck in SHQ. Combined with ability to disband them it's turning into source of free population.
3) NEW! Siege Infantry Brigade have only 800 infantry in foot version, but 900 in motorized/mechanized. Something is wrong here too. [:D]

P.S. Vic, please keep ability to disband militia! Maybe nerf them to provide 0 population back, but still we really need ability to disband them when using Annexion/Unification. There is very little reason to keep tons and tons of ex-minor militia units.

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: demiare

3) NEW! Siege Infantry Brigade have only 800 infantry in foot version, but 900 in motorized/mechanized. Something is wrong here too. [:D]

Vehicle operators for the trucks, apc, etc.

I believe in previous version it was pointed out it was an additional 10 troops per vehicle. That's a large number of drivers. However, considering maintenance, etc. it's not outrageous.

The unit strength represents combat power and rolls in the support, transportation, armorers, maintenance, cooks, etc. It's an elegant method.

I think this was addressed in another thread.

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: demiare

P.S. Vic, please keep ability to disband militia! Maybe nerf them to provide 0 population back, but still we really need ability to disband them when using Annexion/Unification. There is very little reason to keep tons and tons of ex-minor militia units.

I believe the militia troops are debited from the zone's population when the unit is auto-magically raised. You are not getting an advantage by those troops going back to the population... unless you count the emigration of the population to your SHQ's zone. That's true of the Colonize command for troops as well.

As an aside, you may know, the zone's militancy score determines how many militia are recruited each turn.

To game the system, only allow militia units in a zone. No normal units. Then pump up militancy with stratagems, etc. Militia units will then begin to form... eventually with your old and outdated equipment too.

[demiare]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

Vehicle operators for the trucks, apc, etc.

Then why operators aren't included for basic MG and RPG plus Storm Grenadiers motorized/mechanized brigades (at least for them I don't check every possibly formation)? Something isn't healthy here - either every type of infantry brigade should get additional soldiers or nobody. Very confusing when SOME infantry units receive additional troops and SOME are not.

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

I believe the militia troops are debited from the zone's population when the unit is auto-magically raised.

If so - population tooltips are dead silent about it.

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
To game the system, only allow militia units in a zone. No normal units. Then pump up militancy with stratagems

Nice plan except I have 0 stratagems about militancy. [:)] You need to pick specific ideas in regime profile, I can't call it "game the system". Especially in case militia being almost completely useless past first turns.

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: demiare

Then why operators aren't included for basic MG and RPG plus Storm Grenadiers motorized/mechanized brigades (at least for them I don't check every possibly formation)? Something isn't healthy here - either every type of infantry brigade should get additional soldiers or nobody. Very confusing when SOME infantry units receive additional troops and SOME are not.

The MG and RPG models are the troops.

Take a close look at the Raise unit costs for more information. MG and RPG don't just cost materials to produce.

You recruit "troops" into the SHQ pool. Those come from both workers and population. You can Colonize that pool back into Population if needed--to reduce public payroll, for example.

The troops in that pool are used to instantiate the model. Not just infantry models. Again, it's specific to the OOB being instanced per the TO&E.

This is a description of the how, not the why.

If you only want to know why it was designed this way, and not some other way, then I'm not capable of assisting you.

[demiare]

Please tell me why:

1) Storm Grenadiers Infantry on foot using 3500 infantry, 500 MG&RPG (total amount of foot soldiers = 4500), 50 artillery and light tanks, then motorizes one STILL using 3500 infantry, 500 MG&RPG (same 4500 total troops), 50 artillery and tanks.
2) SIEGE Infantry on foot using 4500 infantry and 50 artillery, then motorized one using 5000 infantry and 50 artillery.
3) ASSAULT Infantry on foot using 4500 infantry and 50 light tanks, then motorized one using 5000 infantry and 50 tanks.
4) GRENADIERS on foot using 4500 infantry and 500 MG&RPG (total amount on foot = 5500!), then motorized one using 4500 infantry and 500 MG&PRG.

It very clearly to see that RPG and MG convert ration to infantry is 1:1, but in case of artillery&tanks happens something crazy - they're more "costly" in foot brigades (20:1), but cheaper in motorized and mechanized (10:1). Okay. I get it - it's simulate troubles for infantry to hold line with tanks or tow artillery around. Okay, a poor cheap solution but I will take it.

But @#$%, WHY it stop working when I have mix of RPG&MG with Tanks&Artillery?!

[demiare]

Bug with half-empty militia TOE was still in game started at 1.04b9.

Most often you could encounter it by triggering a spawn of mobile regiment based on RAIDERS culture.

[Vic]

ORIGINAL: demiare

Bug with half-empty militia TOE was still in game started at 1.04b9.

Most often you could encounter it by triggering a spawn of mobile regiment based on RAIDERS culture.

Feel more than free to send me an autosave with which this occurs after i press next turn.
Would be helpfull!
Make sure to include a link to the forum post as well.

Best wishes,
Vic