Requirement to declare war

[goodwoodrw]

I am about 4 turns in and my starting town is taken by an unknown faction. The next turn go and attack my former town, but I have to declare war first. This is a bit odd, you would assume you would be at war with the faction who just invaded your capital. I have noticed in other games,but not thought much of it to now, often a faction can take and control your land, but you have to declare war before you can take your land back, again a bit odd.

[eddieballgame]

Until your boundaries are established it is a 'free for all' per land grabbing...for everyone. [:)]
Free Folk & Alien life forms, not withstanding.

[goodwoodrw]

What constitutes an established boundary?

[eddieballgame]

Good question...from what I gather, 'they' will make a demand/suggestion per the boundaries.
I try to speed up that process by putting territorial pressure on them.
Not sure of the exact process, as I am still learning.

[eddieballgame]

I will add, I have never lost my starting HQ...so not sure how that works.
Was this a 'Minor' faction?
Seems a bit early for that...were they the 'Hunters'?

[goodwoodrw]

Bah I give up just lost another capitol on turn 2 of a new game. It appears the AI is a little more aggressive in the latest beta build. Seem to lose my capitol very easily [:@]

[eddieballgame]

ORIGINAL: goodwoodrw

Bah I give up just lost another capitol on turn 2 of a new game. It appears the AI is a little more aggressive in the latest beta build. Seem to lose my capitol very easily [:@]

Interesting, I am still on 'beta 7' due to a current game & a PBEM game.

[demiare]

Minors will never attack your troops without declaring war first.

So:
1) You left your capital completely unguarded (SHQ isn't combat unit and at beginning lack any troops).
2) You're confusing MINOR with INDEPENDENT. Independent forces are everyone not tied to any serious government - from farmers militia to bandit gangs. They can and will attack you and you can't have a war with them.
3) Same with alien lifeforms - they can and will attack you. AFAIK rogue AI will do so only if you're technologically advanced, they will not attack you at tech3 start.

But I will agree that random start is quite flawed and sometimes allow a large neutral forces to spawn near your capital. Sometimes this isn't manageable (especially in case of alien lifeforms). Plus huge Danger penalty on start is a crazy. This is one of reasons why I think multiplayer in SE is currently a waste of time. IMHO no units should be allowed to spawn in 2-hex radius on start.

[eddieballgame]

ORIGINAL: demiare
This is one of reasons why I think multiplayer in SE is currently a waste of time. IMHO no units should be allowed to spawn in 2-hex radius on start.

I agree that enemy units spawning too close is annoying, but it is extremely rare from my experience.
Only once in my many, many starts has an enemy started 2 hexes away..Hunters!!! on a Medusa.
Of course, I could attribute that to very good fortune for me.
Per multiplayer being a waste of time...I could not disagree more.
In fact I am finding it is even more fun then solo games. imho

[Twotribes]

I get borders to close all the time though usually NO troops are near by.

[goodwoodrw]

My original post has nothing to do spawning or boundaries too close to the capital, but having some being stealing my plot and when you retaliate you have to declare war. I thought in the true sense of this issue pinching my land would constitute an act of war thus being in that state at the start of the next turn. In some cases you can;\'t even re enter the land that was taken from you like the invader has. He hasn't declared war or you would we at war. I just think it's a small glitch in the mechanics of the game.

[eddieballgame]

ORIGINAL: goodwoodrw
I just think it's a small glitch in the mechanics of the game.

You may be right, for I have been playing this game since June 4th (almost daily) with mainly the betas up to 'b7' & I have not experienced your...dilemma.

[ramnblam]

AFAIK if you lose your last city you will get a game over message on the next turn. ALWAYS have a garrison in your cities, never leave them undefended. Independent MG battalions work well in the early game for garrison duty.

[mroyer]

ORIGINAL: eddieballgame

ORIGINAL: goodwoodrw
I just think it's a small glitch in the mechanics of the game.

You may be right, for I have been playing this game since June 4th (almost daily) with mainly the betas up to 'b7' & I have not experienced your...dilemma.

I have two installs, the latest beta-9, and beta-7 which I'm using in a 4-player PBEM game (same one as eddieballgame). In my very first solo run with beta-9 my neighbor minor nation is coming at me hard and kicking in my border defenses with more armor than I've ever seen this early in the game (round 5 in the pic below). Until I read this post I just thought the issue was a combination of player incompetence and bad-luck scenario generation.

Also, I can't figure out how they're being supplied. There's about 800 miles of forest and jungle between them and their towns. Perhaps they have a secret road I'm unaware of.

[boomboomf22]

Minor factions don't require/use roads at all. They just need a direct line connection between them and their capital. Not sure for slavers/nomads if they need supply at all, my suspicion is not. Looks like you had the bad luck to spawn by raiders or slavers there, both can be hyper aggressive. Personally in that situation I would prefer raiders because at least they have a city you can eventually capture for use and sweet, sweet raider militia units.

[demiare]

Well I was a bit wrong and seems that SLAVERS able to attack you without war. Any other minor faction shouldn't.

ORIGINAL: boomboomf22

and sweet, sweet raider militia units.

Sadly it's only 35-40 turns of happiness. Then they will start to use your obsolete units instead their own militia