Tyronec vs BrianG. 12.03

[super_falco]

Hi, how are you going in terms of Units ToE? I suppose german Inf Div will be at 70% at the most. What about Panzer Divs?

[tyronec]

Hi, how are you going in terms of Units ToE? I suppose german Inf Div will be at 70% at the most. What about Panzer Divs?

Panzers are average around 65%, thanks to my over use during the blizzard. Infantry average 80%, and I have 30k in the pool that keeps going up every turn. Everything has been on max TOE 100% for a while.

Have prospects for the required 4 VPs next turn if I get lucky attacking Gorky, or might be able to take 4 cities.
East of Saratov is a mess after the rail was cut but no serious damage.

[tyronec]

Two attacks on Gorky do almost nothing.
However I take Arzamas, Saransk and Penza for 3 VPs.
In the Caucasus the Soviets still have one city, and the attack on Sukhumi fails, so am 1 VP short.

East of Saratov is a mess, have lost 2 Romanian divisions.

Would hope to take Gorky or Sukhumi next turn, or two turns at the most.

[STEF78]

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

Too bad that the map is so small. With the WitE logistics system, I don't see any reason why the Germans shouldn't be able to reach Vladivostok. [:D]

Always pessimistic Bozo! Vladivostok end 1943 then Los Angeles mid 1944 [:)]

[joelmar]

Almost there! I knew it could be done!

[chaos45]

Ehh 2 romanian divisions lost at the end of 1942, acceptable losses....anyway the game spares the romanians 100k+ losses trying to take Odessa in 1941 so should have plenty of replacements built up. could prolly just have them replace actual trained garrison units....that way they garrison and train back up and you can rail the trained garrison troops forward so no big total loss of CV

[tyronec]

T78.
To my surprise when I took Sukhumi and the game ended, was expecting it to need an an End of turn to complete - so never got to find out how the attack on Gorky would go. This is by far the longest WITE game I have ever played and and my only PBEM one played to completion (think I had just one other game that finished without a resignation) - so credit to Brian for playing it through to the end. And credit to joelmar for predicting the result.

I think this game was won during the snow turns of '41 when I got a big pocket, it was uphill for the Soviets from then on. There have been a few comments on the AAR about mistakes Brian has made, IMO he has judged things very well 99% of the time and turn after turn I was finding his rear line defences set up just well enough to stop pockets being closed. Could well be that my over use of Panzers during the first blizzard was the worst mistake of the whole game.

Looking at game balance, with two skillful players would expect Axis to be able to take Lenningrad, Moscow and down to Rostov in '41. They would then be well set up for a strong offensive in '42 and a likely win in 42/43. So a bias in favor of Axis, though if the Soviet player were more skillful they should have a chance.
To counter this the air war is seriously broken and heavily loaded in favor of the Soviets.

[Telemecus]

Many thanks tyronec and briang - brilliant to see a whole game played to conclusion!

[chaos45]

Well done, and I think your comments are spot on.

Congrats on your well played victory.

[Kilo59]

Congratulations on your victory. It's been great to be able to follow along with the play through, thank you.

[BrianG]

DAS ENDS:

I'll start with this

I had no idea game ended automatically if Germans get 290 vc points. I thought we were playing game which ended in 1945, and did not have any sudden end rules. (has this rule been in this game all along or added in a beta)

Thus i was playing really long term and tyronec was playing based on this 290 end game. And that must have been his reason for taking the cities in late 42 and leaving his panzers in a ball near Gorky. And just when i had thought the tide was starting to turn.


Is there a game option for no automatic end?



More to follow:

[BrianG]

Congrats to Tyronec for a well deserved victory.

[BrianG]

I am pretty sure i did not set game up as alt vc 260 and used the first option 1941 -1945 campaign.

So that's why i ask if the 260 auto win was put into the basic campaign in a beta.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: BrianG

DAS ENDS:

I'll start with this

I had no idea game ended automatically if Germans get 290 vc points. I thought we were playing game which ended in 1945, and did not have any sudden end rules. (has this rule been in this game all along or added in a beta)

Thus i was playing really long term and tyronec was playing based on this 290 end game. And that must have been his reason for taking the cities in late 42 and leaving his panzers in a ball near Gorky. And just when i had thought the tide was starting to turn.


Is there a game option for no automatic end?

It has always had the sudden death victory condition. If you do not want that you need to choose the Bitter End scenario.

[SparkleyTits]

Congrats Tyronec

Good job to both of you

[redrum68]

Great game and AAR!

[BrianG]

If you do not want that you need to choose the Bitter End scenario.

That is me.

a bitter ender.

I hopefully will remember next time i put out for a game.

[BrianG]

so what is the difference between regular 41 -45 campaign and the alt260 campaign choice?

Bitter end being a third choice.

answer 260 290 or bitter!!

[BrianG]

I just read this AAR, very nice and well done with lots of help given!

I don't think one realizes the pressure i was constantly facing.
His push with mech units over the Don during mud, was most unwelcome.

And as i've vented elsewhere, I laid down 2 forts in the Baku pass in summer 1941 and the 2 guards corp where just trying to get one fort to level 4 when The Germans broke thru and took the city hex on the coast. (basically unguarded). That compounded with my issue concerning train troop transport capacity which due to a change in reserve back to 0%, my train troop capacity dropped from 30K to 5K and that fully stopped any orderly retreat from Georgia area towards Baku.

Also I was using Guriev port as a reinforcement area (turns 60 thru the end) and they got cut off. I then realized Guriev port is not a supply source. If i had know that, these troops would not have been near Guriev and would have been used in the defense of Chalkov. thus, my lack of knowing the rules resulted in bad Russian strategy and bad tactical decisions.

And since i thought we were bitter end I was not paying attention to vc 290. I might have tried to hold a few other cities, Yaraslov and Chakov, if i had known of the vc situation.

Other issues: my tank corp had very low mp's and i had no ability to flood behind German lines doing havoc. (we know how much i like that).

Otherwise, I thought my troops where finally starting to recover, I have many guard corp, a few tank guard corp, a few waiting for promotion and my Il2 airforce was very well organized.

Tyronec most likely would have played the late Panzer ball differently if it was bitter end. More tanks spread out and less ability for me to do damage (as of the last 4 turns) on the far east of the map.

I am not returning those captured Rumanian mountain troops!

I will post my pictures of this war in a separate room.

[tyronec]

Clearly I made a mistake allowing the rail line East of Saratov to be cut, and there are quite a few units at risk with that lasting several turns. Would I have made that mistake if we had been playing Bitter End, I don't know. Certainly in this game had not been expecting the Soviets to have such strong forces in the area with the 290 VPs under threat.

Had I not been playing to the 290 VPs then would have had a different strategy for the past few turns, focused on pocketing units which I did none of rather than just taking objectives. It is pointless to speculate on what the outcome would have been, however I think the main pressure point would have been on Soviet manpower. On the last 25 turns Soviet OOB went down from 5M to 4.3M while German OOB was fairly static at around 3.6M, when you add in 1.5M Allies that gives Axis the larger army (though the Soviets could avoid the Allies by keeping out of their zones). In that period Soviet replacements have gone done from 82k a turn to 66k a turn due to lost population centers (have been tracking this) and they are about to take a 25% hit in '43. Axis manpower pool is huge but the only part that matters is the German one which was around 40k and increasing 5k a turn during the winter.

I hadn't even realised there were Soviet troops around Guriev.

And yes, my support team were very helpful - you should do an AAR next time Brian and see if you can harvest any useful tips !!!