Splitting up the KB on Turn 0 for Turn 1

[awaw]

ORIGINAL: Alamander

You can also have Magic move TFs link up with other TFs and "carry them" to a destination... by setting the other TF to "meet" the magic move TF and then "merge" with the magic move TF. This is complex, and the TFs often do not link up, unless the magic move TF routs very near the TF that it is to meet, so it is only helpful for a couple of specific moves. This can be helpful in a stock game, because you have a 2 DD TFs in the home islands that can "carry" your CVLs or BBs or an amphibious TF (such as the one at Okinawa) to a destination near Malaysia or Mindanao.

Also, be careful using waypoints with magic move TFs. They will sometimes stop their magic move at the first waypoint, and then take 1 regular movement phase (3 or 4 hexes) after this first waypoint

Hi, can you provide step by step instructions on this merging/magic move combo? I am unable to replicate it, thanks!

[Evoken]

ORIGINAL: awaw


Hi, can you provide step by step instructions on this merging/magic move combo? I am unable to replicate it, thanks!

Create the non magic move task force > route the magic move task force through non magic move task force with a waypoint > tell non magic move task force to merge with magic move task force > success
Some notes; Magic move task forces doesnt burn fuel and they dont take system damage from full speed ,so use full speed for maximum effect

[Evoken]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Technically, those magic move TFs were actually sailing already and were not at the port. Adding ships and ground units to them, I would consider that gamey. If I played someone in a PBEM that did that, I would send an e-mail that said "Have a nice life."

Not gonna get in to a discussion of this but i personally love it when my opponent gets creative with turn 1 moves , i dont want same old historical start that has been played thousands of times [8|]

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Evoken

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Technically, those magic move TFs were actually sailing already and were not at the port. Adding ships and ground units to them, I would consider that gamey. If I played someone in a PBEM that did that, I would send an e-mail that said "Have a nice life."

Not gonna get in to a discussion of this but i personally love it when my opponent gets creative with turn 1 moves , i dont want same old historical start that has been played thousands of times [8|]

Then invade Kona or Prince Rupert.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Evoken

ORIGINAL: awaw
Hi, can you provide step by step instructions on this merging/magic move combo? I am unable to replicate it, thanks!

Create the non magic move task force > route the magic move task force through non magic move task force with a waypoint > tell non magic move task force to merge with magic move task force > success
Some notes; Magic move task forces doesnt burn fuel and they dont take system damage from full speed ,so use full speed for maximum effect

I second that it works exactly as described. The idea is to ensure that non-magic TF spends an absolute minimum of its action points before the merger. Because the remaining action points % transfer to a magic-move TF and applies as a restriction to further magic move.

I picked up BBs and CVL/CVEs from Home Islands all the way to CRB this way.

[paradigmblue]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Technically, those magic move TFs were actually sailing already and were not at the port. Adding ships and ground units to them, I would consider that gamey. If I played someone in a PBEM that did that, I would send an e-mail that said "Have a nice life."

Yep, it's important to have a feel for how your opponent feels about those things. In this case, I don't think Lowpe will mind too much if scout1 does something audacious or even "gamey" on their first turn, especially with the huge disparity in their experience levels with WitP.

[RADM.Yamaguchi]

ORIGINAL: paradigmblue

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Technically, those magic move TFs were actually sailing already and were not at the port. Adding ships and ground units to them, I would consider that gamey. If I played someone in a PBEM that did that, I would send an e-mail that said "Have a nice life."

Yep, it's important to have a feel for how your opponent feels about those things. In this case, I don't think Lowpe will mind too much if scout1 does something audacious or even "gamey" on their first turn, especially with the huge disparity in their experience levels with WitP.

Yes, when Lowpe mentioned Scout1 looking for help i suggested that i thought it would be important for veteran players to assist him and Lowpe agreed. i would imagine you could do anything you wanted without it being an issue but it might pay to double check.

[Alamander]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Some people might object to adding additional ships to the magic move task forces. In reality, they would be seen sailing towards their target and then there may have been no surprise.

Really? We are talking about a size 3 and a size 4 port at Pescadores and Samah. There are almost no ground units that can be added at Camh Ran Bay or Saigon. Takao is a larger port but has mostly support units. So what typically occurs is the loading of some support units, such as an air HQ at Takao... maybe a tank regiment at Samah. No one is going to be loading a couple of divisions, though you can, I think, load a division at Hiroshima and merge it with the DD magic move TF at Kobe. However, to do so, you would need to load the division on a bunch of garbage xAKLs, and frankly I would be delighted, as the allies, if my opponent put one of his best divisions on a bunch of speed 10 xAKLS: magic move or no. Sounds like some yummies for Boise and company.

You would quit a game because you opponent added some aviation support to an invasion or landed 1 extra tank regiment in Malaysia?

Typically what bothers allied players are deep moves that would be impossible without detection... i.e. landing at Port Moresby, for example, since allied intel and search planes would have detected such a move far in advance. What I typically do to avoid contraversy is limit my moves to what is reasonable.. i.e. no Port Moresby... no landing at Timor or Java or Fiji or some such.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Alamander

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Some people might object to adding additional ships to the magic move task forces. In reality, they would be seen sailing towards their target and then there may have been no surprise.

Really? We are talking about a size 3 and a size 4 port at Pescadores and Samah. There are almost no ground units that can be added at Camh Ran Bay or Saigon. Takao is a larger port but so what typically occurs is the loading of some support units, such as an air HQ at Takao... maybe a tank regiment at Samah. You would quit a game because you opponent added some aviation support to an invasion or landed 1 extra tank regiment in Malaysia?

You are talking much more than that.

[Alamander]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You are talking much more than that.

Not really. There really isn't that much that can be added. You are dealing with small ports and mostly xAKs and xAKLs that have very low troop capacity and take up a lot of dock space. If you try to load undocked, you will not complete the load in time. Where you can load more, such as Saigon and Camh Ran Bay, there is not much to load... maybe an SNLF at Cam Ranh Bay if you are so inclined, but that is about it.

[RangerJoe]

People are also talking about moving the battle fleet south using a magic move. If that would have happened, then the Allies might have been on a war footing, hence much less surprise.

[awaw]

ORIGINAL: Evoken

ORIGINAL: awaw


Hi, can you provide step by step instructions on this merging/magic move combo? I am unable to replicate it, thanks!

Create the non magic move task force > route the magic move task force through non magic move task force with a waypoint > tell non magic move task force to merge with magic move task force > success
Some notes; Magic move task forces doesnt burn fuel and they dont take system damage from full speed ,so use full speed for maximum effect

Thank you very much. I will look into this, it does open up a lot of possibilities!

[Alamander]

ORIGINAL: awaw



Thank you very much. I will look into this, it does open up a lot of possibilities!

Keep in mind that when playing against an experienced player, especially someone with experience playing Japan, they have complete knowledge of the Japanese start positions. They know, for example, that there is an undefended convoy, containing a complete division, that starts near Okinawa. This convoy is poorly designed and contains, if I recall correctly, a number of slow xAKs.

Typically a house rule is implemented to prevent Japan from fully exploiting knowledge of start positions by not allowing KB to magic move to the hexes containing U.S. CVs. What house rule could prevent a U.S. player from moving Boise and Houston at full speed toward the convoy at Okinawa? Would you prevent the U.S. player from engaging Japanese amphibious convoys for 3 days. I suspect every Allied player would object, and rightly so.

Should Japan then be forced to divert assets from their invasion cover SAGs or their carrier arm to defend against an unrealistically omniscient opponent? For these reasons, I think that using magic moves to merge TFs and change around some start positions to get a couple vulnerable convoys into better position is reasonable.

[RangerJoe]

But the Houston and the Boise are in port. They can't move first turn unless the Allies are allowed to make task forces. In that case, what is in Pearl Harbor to bomb but a couple of hapless PT Boats? There are other ships that an move fast and support those convoys. That is besides air power.

[Evoken]

Wrong. Both of them start with task forces

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

But the Houston and the Boise are in port. They can't move first turn unless the Allies are allowed to make task forces. In that case, what is in Pearl Harbor to bomb but a couple of hapless PT Boats? There are other ships that an move fast and support those convoys. That is besides air power.

My mistake, I have not open the Allied side for months. But two ships? The IJN has ships that can move to intercept long before those two can get to a fleet that starts in Okinawa.

[Alamander]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
My mistake, I have not open the Allied side for months. But two ships? The IJN has ships that can move to intercept long before those two can get to a fleet that starts in Okinawa.

They don't. The only SAGs that begin in magic move TFs, if I recall correctly, are the "Hvy Cover" grp with Kongo and Haruna off the coast of Malaysia, and the CA Chokai with 3 DDs at Samah. A CA group at Takao may begin as a magic move TF, though I think it does not, as it is designed to cover the northern Luzon landings. The other BBs are in the Home Islands. There is a CA group covering the Guam invasion TF, and a CA group near Babeldaod. Houston and Boise could beat this group to Okinawa unless the Babeldaod group moves at full-speed and leaves the amphibious TFs there without SAG cover. It is only 1 turn full-speed move from Legaspi to intercept the TF near Okinawa. KB is the only other group that could cover them with a magic move if no adjustments are made to TFs.

This is why adjustments to the magic move TFs are essential in a game against a human opponent with knowledge of Japan's at-start positions.

[RangerJoe]

Aren't there DDs with the magic movement in the Home Islands? Or is that Scenario 2?

If the task force is in Okinawa, there are cruisers and DDs in and around Takao.

[scout1]

Not intending anything gamey (w/o permission) ..... And intend to limit it anyways ....

[Alamander]

Remember that Lowpe knows, better than anyone, the position of all of your units at start and where you are weak. He also knows little secret weaknesses that only someone very familiar with Japan would know. For example, I am sure that he knows that the A5M4s in the Marshalls cannot upgrade to A6M2s except with an air HQ at Truk and that your air HQ in the Marshalls starts out of position on Kwajalein, a size 1 airfield. There are others like this as well, and when you are looking over your forces, assume that your opponent already knows where you are weak: especially your specific opponent in this game.

So, you probably want to modify some magic move TFs and probably merge some other TFs into magic move TFs to cover some of these weak points. I usually do, since I assume that any opponent can open the scenario and look at my starting positions. I don't think this is gamey at all, and I highly doubt that Lowpe would either. Japan's opening moves are not all about making big strides forward. It is also important to cover yourself and protect your forces.