Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A)

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

are you sure about the Dutch declaration of war?

"the Dutch government-in-exile declared war on Japan the day after the attack on Pearl Harbor, 8 December 1941 (London time). The Japanese, however, did not declare war in turn on the Netherlands until 11 January 1942, possibly in the hope that this would delay the demolition of Dutch oil fields until the japanese were ready move against them.

My memory is bad...I knew they declared war on Japan, I just got the timing off. I believe they knew war was coming and ordered all shipping to safe ports before Pearl Harbor even merchant shipping. Or am I wrong on that too?

[RangerJoe]

The Japanese shot down a British Hudson about an hour and a half before Pearl Harbor was attacked. The British felt that the Japanese were coming to invade.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The Japanese shot down a British Hudson about an hour and a half before Pearl Harbor was attacked. The British felt that the Japanese were coming to invade.

About the best way to save Task Force Z I found was to increase the %CAP at Singapore and have Task Force Z camp out there. If they disband in to Singers they survive the AI, but maybe not a player. It is a crap shoot.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

If you don't have a HR to let Task Force Z do its suicide foray, you should just run it full speed to Batavia

And the British didn't know who was the target of Japan's aggression, or better to say it was totally rational to believe they would go ONLY after Thailand (which they actually did; the game doesn't account for the fact that for the 1st few days, Thailand was invaded and at war against Japan)

[Lowpe]

Adding up the Political Point Cost I plan on spending changing Chinese Leaders...tops 300 points. [X(] 9 to 13 points to change a Corp Leader. I could easily spend 500 and still not feel great. c350 points could buy out an IJA Regiment.

Pretty much all my first expenditures will go there.

I have identified where all Chinese Base forces will go. Quite a few will go into holding key non base hexes once they have some AA. I have 4 base forces left over after covering critical hexes/bases.

How do most AFBs spend their early PP?

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

If you don't have a HR to let Task Force Z do its suicide foray, you should just run it full speed to Batavia

I think that will probably be death by CV. Just guessing, but Japan has mentioned several times that there are more important targets than Battleship Row. Without being super gamey, to me that pretty much means Task Force Z, in fact I might go so far as to personally rate Task Force Z over Battleship Row but not over Battleship Row + Catalinas & 4E Beasts at Pearl.

Moving Task Force Z south, means on day 1 it can reach just east of Palembang, stripped of any fighter coverage, it would be absolute dead meat to a two carrier strike.

That also frees up the Betties/Nells to select Naval attack, Port attack Singapore. I can't remember if Singers can be swept or not...my guess is yes.

Plus it does nothing to deter Mersing or a Singapore invasion. Singapore is probably beyond the pale, but Mersing is quite nasty. Will Task Force Z stop a Mersing attack...but she does match up pretty well against the IJN fast BBs around.

[Yaab]

I have several variants for PP expenses for turn 1, but there are two must-do things:

-changing leaders in fighter units on Luzon
-changing leaders in fighter units in Pearl Harbor

You have some really poor leaders there initially, many with AIR skill in 30s. If KB strikes again at Pearl, you will have a very weak CAP with the original leaders. Same goes for Luzon.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Singers can be swept from Soc Trang (I think that is the base with 18 Zeros). Not really needed on turn 1, but if you are playing 2 turns, it make sense to set it to sweep, with Netties bombing port

In my games (which are DaBabes), I found that unless you leave alone the 1st turn (hardcoded), it is really difficult to hit Force Z with Netties; many times they survived with minimal damage. KB, or parts of it, is a different problem altogether

Regarding PPs: I would save them for a few turns, then start using them to buy small LCUs (like AA or base force) that I want to evacuate or use. I won't change leaders, not yet, unless they are getting into action right away. Changing air units is more important than changing land or naval, IMO

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

I have several variants for PP expenses for turn 1, but there are two must-do things:

-changing leaders in fighter units on Luzon
-changing leaders in fighter units in Pearl Harbor

You have some really poor leaders there initially, many with AIR skill in 30s. If KB strikes again at Pearl, you will have a very weak CAP with the original leaders. Same goes for Luzon.

Good point, those guys are indeed quite poor. Still, I think I will pull a NYGiants there for a while, so not pressing turn 2 priority maybe turn 3. Generally Air guys don't cost much.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Singers can be swept from Soc Trang (I think that is the base with 18 Zeros). Not really needed on turn 1, but if you are playing 2 turns, it make sense to set it to sweep, with Netties bombing port

In my games (which are DaBabes), I found that unless you leave alone the 1st turn (hardcoded), it is really difficult to hit Force Z with Netties; many times they survived with minimal damage. KB, or parts of it, is a different problem altogether

Regarding PPs: I would save them for a few turns, then start using them to buy small LCUs (like AA or base force) that I want to evacuate or use. I won't change leaders, not yet, unless they are getting into action right away. Changing air units is more important than changing land or naval, IMO

My thoughts mirror yours, 2 day turns changes things. You simply really have to watch how you use bombers and choose squadron leaders.

In stock, I gamed Force Z about a dozen times against the AI. POW survived twice, once by hanging out in Singapore, and another when bad weather limited the morning Betty strike to 9 planes. Force Z does survive 100% of the time by fleeing to Batavia...but I am not playing the AI.

Great thing about this game is that there is so many different tactics to follow. I was kind of doubtful about getting enough shipping into the needed ports to move all the free units I want to move, let alone buying some out and putting more pressure on the shipping. Plus with extremely variable reinforcements, I might be flooded with troops and no transportation. Happy problem.

Will look some more at it...but still want to change the leaders in China. I think for my game that is the biggest PP bang for the buck. Almost 100 points on the pre-turn feels very impactful.

I do want to try and send some supply to Luzon from Pearl, and to Wenchow too for that matter. It is a one way trip, so volunteers only.[;)]

[Lowpe]

Having thought about, and examined the OOB in detail, I am going to go so far to say that China is far from a lost cause that most AFBs complain of. There, I said it.[:)] I feel very confident I can stalemate the IJA, and eventually turn the tables on them in China.

My big concern is the Armored/Heavy artillery Schwerpunkt. I have taken steps to counter this.

Putting this in writing now, so I can eat crow later.[:D]

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Having thought about, and examined the OOB in detail, I am going to go so far to say that China is far from a lost cause that most AFBs complain of. There, I said it.[:)] I feel very confident I can stalemate the IJA, and eventually turn the tables on them in China.

My big concern is the Armored/Heavy artillery Schwerpunkt. I have taken steps to counter this.

Putting this in writing now, so I can eat crow later.[:D]

Over the years I have made several posts arguing that most AFB just badly mishandle China.

I've never believed China to be a lost cause. Against a good and determined Japanese opponent, it might be impossible to prevent the loss of all the Chinese bases but that doesn't matter if it happens well into 1943. Such a result would be a strategic Allied victory because of the huge opportunity cost it would have imposed on Japan. A Japan still heavily involved in China in 1943 should be an easy roll to American and Australian forces.

Alfred

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Having thought about, and examined the OOB in detail, I am going to go so far to say that China is far from a lost cause that most AFBs complain of. There, I said it.[:)] I feel very confident I can stalemate the IJA, and eventually turn the tables on them in China.

My big concern is the Armored/Heavy artillery Schwerpunkt. I have taken steps to counter this.

Putting this in writing now, so I can eat crow later.[:D]

Over the years I have made several posts arguing that most AFB just badly mishandle China.

I've never believed China to be a lost cause. Against a good and determined Japanese opponent, it might be impossible to prevent the loss of all the Chinese bases but that doesn't matter if it happens well into 1943. Such a result would be a strategic Allied victory because of the huge opportunity cost it would have imposed on Japan. A Japan still heavily involved in China in 1943 should be an easy roll to American and Australian forces.

Alfred

I have read some of your great posts on the matter Alfred![&o]

When I have taken China, I always progressed thru shocked that the Chinese are letting me get this hex or that base for free, especially the non base critical hexes. Just giving away hexes that should be defended and defended heavily.

So, I always knew there was a much better way...but in looking at the OOB, I am fairly impressed with some of the units, at how quickly they can be built up for their role to help counter China's perceived weakness in AA for one example. The generous HQs, it is like a bonanza there.

[DesertWolf101]

I have only one previous campaign as the Chinese to go on, but if I can offer one piece of advise, it would be to not get too attached to a well defended position at the cost of allowing the Japanese player to concentrate their forces elsewhere. By all means you should defend key bases with good supply like Changsha, but sitting in an impregnable mountain hex somewhere is useless if the Japanese simply shift their main axis of advance in another direction. The Chinese are on the strategic defensive, but operationally that defense needs to be elastic and keep pace with where the Japanese are pushing.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

I have only one previous campaign as the Chinese to go on, but if I can offer one piece of advise, it would be to not get too attached to a well defended position at the cost of allowing the Japanese player to concentrate their forces elsewhere. By all means you should defend key bases with good supply like Changsha, but sitting in an impregnable mountain hex somewhere is useless if the Japanese simply shift their main axis of advance in another direction. The Chinese are on the strategic defensive, but operationally that defense needs to be elastic and keep pace with where the Japanese are pushing.

I view Changsha pretty much as a trap for Chinese. Not going to waste good units there.

There is no MLR in China. Every position serves a different purpose, needs different troop composition.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101
I have only one previous campaign as the Chinese to go on, but if I can offer one piece of advise, it would be to not get too attached to a well defended position at the cost of allowing the Japanese player to concentrate their forces elsewhere. By all means you should defend key bases with good supply like Changsha, but sitting in an impregnable mountain hex somewhere is useless if the Japanese simply shift their main axis of advance in another direction. The Chinese are on the strategic defensive, but operationally that defense needs to be elastic and keep pace with where the Japanese are pushing.

I disagree. Chinese have a lot of AV that is enough to organize multiple strong points, and can be great when dug in hard terrain. But to dig in you need it to be stationary for prolonged periods of time. Just choose the places wisely, not every x3 hex has strategic importance.

Edit: sure there should be a dynamic part too. E.g. strategic reserves and the annoying cockroach run-around through Japanese lines

[Bif1961]

I consider Changsha as a loss as it is on the wrong side of a river line that should be better to defend.

[RangerJoe]

That does not mean that you can't fight to hold it to slow the enemy down. Just remember that if it is surrounded, they are all destroyed. Some of the infantry will come back, but the devices?[:(]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

That does not mean that you can't fight to hold it to slow the enemy down. Just remember that if it is surrounded, they are all destroyed. Some of the infantry will come back, but the devices?[:(]

Correct. I said I wasn't going to waste good units there. Heck, to a casual JFB, a stack of horrible troops looks pretty similar as long as long they don't start figuring out guns.

[CaptBeefheart]

What was it Elvis said? "A little less conversation, a little more action please." When is this AAR going to see some action? [;)]

Cheers,
CB