Hell Hath Frozen Over (Scout1 (J) vs Lowpe (A)

[RangerJoe]

Since I was reading and commenting on the magic move thread, I will not comment here unless asked. [;)]

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

There was an AAR that went 17 pages before Dec 7 turn.

My memory may be faulty on this but wasn't that AAR involving Bill Brown which only lasted a few turns before the opponent dropped out because he didn't get the results which he had achieved in his extensive pre game planning and testing. Of course that wan't the official reason given for ending the game.

Alfred

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Got a missive from Japan seeking my views on adding additional units with the magic move, nothing silly/gamey like Singapore, but 2 port attacks on initial turn.

Not sure exactly what he means, but I told him to go for it. If I had to guess perhaps he wants to invade Ambon, Sinkawang, Jolo, or Denpassar. I guess.

Just want the game to start.

Maybe, maybe not.

This post of yours might become one of the great AE wide of the mark with consequent great embarrassment when reminded of its existence.[:)]

Patience young grasshopper. Don't let impatience lead to subsequent regret.

Alfred

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

There was an AAR that went 17 pages before Dec 7 turn.

My memory may be faulty on this but wasn't that AAR involving Bill Brown which only lasted a few turns before the opponent dropped out because he didn't get the results which he had achieved in his extensive pre game planning and testing. Of course that wan't the official reason given for ending the game.

Alfred

To become too heavily invested in the outcome of the magic moves, which always work against the AI but perhaps not against a player...

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Got a missive from Japan seeking my views on adding additional units with the magic move, nothing silly/gamey like Singapore, but 2 port attacks on initial turn.

Not sure exactly what he means, but I told him to go for it. If I had to guess perhaps he wants to invade Ambon, Sinkawang, Jolo, or Denpassar. I guess.

Just want the game to start.

Maybe, maybe not.

This post of yours might become one of the great AE wide of the mark with consequent great embarrassment when reminded of its existence.[:)]

Patience young grasshopper. Don't let impatience lead to subsequent regret.

Alfred

You may be correct. [;)]

I see now that the Allies will most likely be facing a very early arrival of the Sam without a huge r&d focus on it. A Japanese game built around exploiting that --- well, it may well make it very difficult to avoid autovictory in 1944.

In reality, the prospect of the Allies struggling mightily to avoid autovictory appeals very much to me. What can I say -- I always related to Horatio.


One great fighter, super early, will definitely challenge the Allies. On the other hand, it still requires Japan to use them properly.

Forewarned is forearmed. [:)]

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Got a missive from Japan seeking my views on adding additional units with the magic move, nothing silly/gamey like Singapore, but 2 port attacks on initial turn.

Not sure exactly what he means, but I told him to go for it. If I had to guess perhaps he wants to invade Ambon, Sinkawang, Jolo, or Denpassar. I guess.

Just want the game to start.

Maybe, maybe not.

This post of yours might become one of the great AE wide of the mark with consequent great embarrassment when reminded of its existence.[:)]

Patience young grasshopper. Don't let impatience lead to subsequent regret.

Alfred

You may be correct. [;)]

I see now that the Allies will most likely be facing a very early arrival of the Sam without a huge r&d focus on it. A Japanese game built around exploiting that --- well, it may well make it very difficult to avoid autovictory in 1944.

In reality, the prospect of the Allies struggling mightily to avoid autovictory appeals very much to me. What can I say -- I always related to Horatio.


One great fighter, super early, will definitely challenge the Allies. On the other hand, it still requires Japan to use them properly.

Forewarned is forearmed. [:)]

I thought that you would like that information.

Think if you could pull that on an unsuspecting Allied player . . . [:D]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Alfred




Maybe, maybe not.

This post of yours might become one of the great AE wide of the mark with consequent great embarrassment when reminded of its existence.[:)]

Patience young grasshopper. Don't let impatience lead to subsequent regret.

Alfred

You may be correct. [;)]

I see now that the Allies will most likely be facing a very early arrival of the Sam without a huge r&d focus on it. A Japanese game built around exploiting that --- well, it may well make it very difficult to avoid autovictory in 1944.

In reality, the prospect of the Allies struggling mightily to avoid autovictory appeals very much to me. What can I say -- I always related to Horatio.


One great fighter, super early, will definitely challenge the Allies. On the other hand, it still requires Japan to use them properly.

Forewarned is forearmed. [:)]

I thought that you would like that information.

Think if you could pull that on an unsuspecting Allied player . . . [:D]

I would have spotted it at some point...however, I suspect if Sam did appear out of the blue in say 1st quarter 43, that it might cause some games to fail.

[Lowpe]

Japan has informed me they need another week...but that the turn should be in my inbox by next Saturday.

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Lowpe




You may be correct. [;)]

I see now that the Allies will most likely be facing a very early arrival of the Sam without a huge r&d focus on it. A Japanese game built around exploiting that --- well, it may well make it very difficult to avoid autovictory in 1944.

In reality, the prospect of the Allies struggling mightily to avoid autovictory appeals very much to me. What can I say -- I always related to Horatio.


One great fighter, super early, will definitely challenge the Allies. On the other hand, it still requires Japan to use them properly.

Forewarned is forearmed. [:)]

I thought that you would like that information.

Think if you could pull that on an unsuspecting Allied player . . . [:D]

I would have spotted it at some point...however, I suspect if Sam did appear out of the blue in say 1st quarter 43, that it might cause some games to fail.

Am I missing something? Are we talking about a potential exploit or rather some secret squirrel way of getting the Sam ridiculously early?

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe




I thought that you would like that information.

Think if you could pull that on an unsuspecting Allied player . . . [:D]

I would have spotted it at some point...however, I suspect if Sam did appear out of the blue in say 1st quarter 43, that it might cause some games to fail.

Am I missing something? Are we talking about a potential exploit or rather some secret squirrel way of getting the Sam ridiculously early?

A certain scenario.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101



Am I missing something? Are we talking about a potential exploit or rather some secret squirrel way of getting the Sam ridiculously early?

It is not a big secret.

When Andy updated the scenario he streamlined the r&d, in fact he went too far and Get pointed it out to him...Oscar upgrading to Frank and other models. Andy fixed them all but left in Scenario 2 the A6M8 upgrading to the Sam...

Last I looked the scenario update had only been downloaded 150 times, so has not seen a lot of play.

It is like the level 6 forts in Burma dot bases. Oversights. Since I know Andy is kind of against getting the A6M8 in early 1943, I suspect he is really against getting the Sam in 1943. My opinion there.

I can go into the editor and change it as long as Japan agrees to the changes.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
It is not a big secret.

When Andy updated the scenario he streamlined the r&d, in fact he went too far and Get pointed it out to him...Oscar upgrading to Frank and other models. Andy fixed them all but left in Scenario 2 the A6M8 upgrading to the Sam...

Forget about A7M, I got Ki-94-II in summer 42 in that scenario in the AI game [:D]. The initial scenario that is, where Oscars upgraded to it. The only time I got to play with this plane )

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101



Am I missing something? Are we talking about a potential exploit or rather some secret squirrel way of getting the Sam ridiculously early?

It is not a big secret.

When Andy updated the scenario he streamlined the r&d, in fact he went too far and Get pointed it out to him...Oscar upgrading to Frank and other models. Andy fixed them all but left in Scenario 2 the A6M8 upgrading to the Sam...

Last I looked the scenario update had only been downloaded 150 times, so has not seen a lot of play.

It is like the level 6 forts in Burma dot bases. Oversights. Since I know Andy is kind of against getting the A6M8 in early 1943, I suspect he is really against getting the Sam in 1943. My opinion there.

I can go into the editor and change it as long as Japan agrees to the changes.

It is an exploit and one not viewed favourably by the devs.

Alfred

[Lowpe]

Just dropped the Empire and email....letting him know about the Rufe to Zero to Sam upgrade path.

I offered several solutions: I can jump into the editor and return the A6M8 to no upgrade. If he did go whole hog into r&d for the super early arrival of Sam we can either require successful r&d of each plane in the line (no skipping models) or we can set an early date of the Sam's arrival with no production prior.

I can live with a lot. Just not sure what Scout1 can live with. If you build your game around a tactic, and that tactic doesn't work out...well, I think that causes a lot of dropped games. I very much prefer to finish the game to a decision.

I am pretty sure he has already done r&d, however on the first turn not all of it gets done due to supply constraints.

We shall see.

I much prefer posts about crazy out of the box tactics or TOEs![;)]

[Lowpe]

What do most AFBs do for recon in India? China I was planning on using some bombers....

Here is a look at the recon squadron reinforcements (excluding US and Soviets).

Are there a bunch of squadrons that upgrade to recon?

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Anachro

I have no idea, but its exceedingly easy to get the A6M8 by early 1943 or better perhaps. Is there any reason to go for the A6M8 over A6M5? Or simply go for the A7M2 after getting the A7M5 without worrying about the 8? Sorry for turning Lowpe's Allied AAR into questions on Japan, but... [8D]

Catch up on your A6M8 question -- it depends.

I only ever got the plane in a pdu off game once...however, I think it might very well be the third most important plane for Japan to get early. Sam and Frank are more important.

Yes, it isn't a great plane...but for the role it plays and how early you can get it, it does make the KB into a knife fighting monster for a period in time when the Allies usually get adventurous with their fleet carriers (especially when paired with Judy). On land, it is a solid defensive fighter.

If the appearance of the M8 early enough causes the Allies to not be venturesome you have either bought time or kept the initiative. As always it depends what you do with them.

[Lowpe]

Dec 7th Pre Turn PP expenditures:

100 points total: 8 Corp Commander switches in China

Dec 9th Turn PP:

254th Armored Bde 5 points
CNAC Transport Sqdrn 50 points
Remainder: HQ and Corp Commanders in China

Dec 11th Turn PP:

2nd KNIL AA Btln 18 points


That is as far as I have gotten.

I am kind of loath to buy out units for rebuilding....rather let them die. The air squadrons on Luzon look nice, but all withdraw eventually in 42 sometime. So, I am tempted to use them from Mindanao and disband them.

The B17s though are awfully tempting to buy out. 32 pp, they can get to Ledo very easily and start ferrying supplies once the runway reaches 5. Even Calcutta is only a 4 though...so they would sit idle training for a while. Or with poor pilots they can do nuisance raids against Japanese bases. On the fence here both options are attractive.

I am not too interested in buying out a full US Division, because I have a hard time seeing where I would use it effectively (other than India). I think I can hold off till January for shipping large combat units there.

There is a wonderful synergy in shipping US forces to Cape Town and once there deciding to send them to India or Oz, but I suspect that is a much longer trip than to Oz directly (but safer perhaps). So I am assigning a probability of final usage of Oz versus India. Those with a good likelihood of Oz usage will go there via New Zealand and risk the IJN interception.

I think I will be hard pressed early on to get the required shipping together for all the free units anyhow. Especially if planning a Marcus Island gambit.

I would like to have a few PP stored up as a reserve, and also perhaps to change leaders in Malaya, Burma and India to go along with my aggressive use in China. China is always going to need some spare PP for leader changes. Plus, then there are the naval commanders and air leaders that all need changing....this is probably where the bulk of turn 3 PP go.

Turn 4 I should be able to buy out more Indian/British/Commonwealth units for air shipment to China, or to risk a ship transit to Rangoon.

I think I am really going to burn thru the first four hundred points doing a lot of leader changes and very modest unit buyouts. I don't think that is typical AFB behavior. I can easily see spending close to 1000 points on leader changes in December.

What actual practical in game effect is there to be had in switching Kimmel out for someone with Nimitz being the obvious choice? I am not sure I see one early on unless Pearl is a battlefield. It is a Command HQ, and my intuition is to put in the best choice for all the hidden benefits as soon as possible.

[Q-Ball]

On the Luzon B-17s....at start, the USAAF generally has more bomber units than bombers. Wouldn't it be easier to fly other 4E units to India, and disband the Luzon units? Eventually those bombers will be back in the pool and you can deploy them. You may actually have full-strength bomber units at that point!

Would save the PPs

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

On the Luzon B-17s....at start, the USAAF generally has more bomber units than bombers. Wouldn't it be easier to fly other 4E units to India, and disband the Luzon units? Eventually those bombers will be back in the pool and you can deploy them. You may actually have full-strength bomber units at that point!

Would save the PPs

That was my thought too, but I do want to use them to raid some ports initially to slow down Japan a bit, or at least get them to send fighters to some spots. So I am torn.

I am not sure how long an air bridge will be in existence to fly from SRA to India that could accommodate B17s, so that means shipping from East Coast, to Cape Town and there to India. A long trip. The Philippine B17 can get there a month sooner.

I am not 100% versed in off map movement. I read the manual, remember a fair number of tips from Bullwinkle and NYgiants, but for the life of me I can't find rough movement times from area to area or off map location to on map entry point.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

What do most AFBs do for recon in India? China I was planning on using some bombers....

Here is a look at the recon squadron reinforcements (excluding US and Soviets).

Are there a bunch of squadrons that upgrade to recon?

For India you get to use the British non recon aircraft which come equipped with a camera.

FB - Fulmar II
FB - Hurricane FRIIb
FB - Hurricane FRIIc
DB - Barracuda TRIII
LB - Lysander

For 1942 you are heaavily dependent on the Fulmar and Lysander units. The Lysander in particular has a fair production rate so you can swap it in to those Indian units flying the fearsome Wapiti and Audax light bombers.

Range is the real problem with getting intel in India.

Alfred