First steps in the Factory

2_X_S · Post by **2_X_S** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 11:08 pm

[FONT=Arial]After using the default Titans for quite some time, my squad finaly made it to green and i wanted to get one light titan as a replacement for a cannon using recon titan.

i couldnt find one that would fit into the squad so i decided to try and build something.

Since its my first attempt, i would really appreciate some comments/tipps. The design is not hammered in stone, i thought about lowering the life support and add a a few more armor points (especialy to the rear its kinda thin)

2x

Titan Name: Devastator Medium Range Light Titan
Chassis: Morola L2 Design: 2_X_S
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Weight: 70.0t (70t maximum) Height : 9 [meter]
Bmt : 21 (57 kph) Reduce Heat: -2.76C/sec.
No Jump Ports Cost : 141583($)

Equipment:
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Component/Type/Location

Engine :Triton T2 [Engine 2] [CT ]
HeatReg.:Delinit H4 [Heat 4]
Flares :FL Small [Flare1] [Head]
LifeSup.:B.M.I. [Life 3] [Head]
Scanner :CyberSys L [Scan. 3] [CT ]
Computer:Mark BC-X [Comp. 6] [CBT ]

Weapons:
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Location/Weapon/Ammunition/Slots

[RT ] AUTO CANNON 12 (014) [1]
[LT ] AUTO CANNON 12 (014) [1]
[RA ] MACHINE GUN (025) [1]
[LA ] MACHINE GUN (025) [1]
[RA ] SMALL LASER
[LA ] SMALL LASER

Armor:
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Loc/Internal/Armor/Status/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy HMAX 017 [025mm]
[RT ] (19) Vicenium (W) 023 [039mm]
[CT ] (19) Millenia (W) 025 [050mm]
[CBT ] (13) Vicenium (W) 011 [019mm]
[LT ] (19) Vicenium (W) 023 [039mm]
[RA ] (17) Vicenium (W) 020 [034mm]
[LA ] (17) Vicenium (W) 020 [034mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium (W) 023 [039mm]
[RL ] (15) Millenia (W) 022 [045mm]
[LL ] (15) Millenia (W) 022 [045mm]

Armor Index: 5.20 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 158 [APts]
External: 206 [APts] Max:[051mm]
Total Armor: 364 [APts]

JOCK requirements:
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Piloting: Light Titan
Weapons : Energy Cannon
Warfare : Defense Scanner
Skills :

Manchek · Post by **Manchek** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 11:40 pm

My experiance with building titans is limited curretly, so take my advice with a grain of salt....

It looks to me like your heat regulator is unnessicarily advanced. Cannons and small lasers produce little heat, so you could get away with a less advanced regulator and add more ammo or armor with the tonnage you save.

Speaking of armor, I wouldn't use Millenia armor in you center torso. It provides the least amount of protection out of any of the armor types, and your CT will most likely be absorbing the brunt of the combat damage.

also, IMHO Machine Guns are too short ranged and weak to be of much use. I would rip them off and replace them with a close combat weapon, which may have even shorter range, but at least does decent damage.

But that's just me.

-Manchek

Rebel Yell · Post by **Rebel Yell** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:32 am

I'll let Sleeping Dragon, the design King, tell you everything else you need to know about creating "Titans that do not suck", but my contribution will be to say try not mix different weapons types.

If your low level jocks have energy and cannon, then they have no close combat, which they will see a lot of, and do poorly in. FWIW, my veteran jocks are still either energy/cc, cannon/cc, or gm/indirect. I believe in max ability.

Also, IMHO, machine guns are very useful as they fire fast and do double damage at point blank range. You might be amazed how fast an mg armed titan can chew up another.

2_X_S · Post by **2_X_S** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 2:14 am

Rebel Yell wrote:I'll let Sleeping Dragon, the design King, tell you everything else you need to know about creating "Titans that do not suck", but my contribution will be to say try not mix different weapons types.

If your low level jocks have energy and cannon, then they have no close combat, which they will see a lot of, and do poorly in. FWIW, my veteran jocks are still either energy/cc, cannon/cc, or gm/indirect. I believe in max ability.

Also, IMHO, machine guns are very useful as they fire fast and do double damage at point blank range. You might be amazed how fast an mg armed titan can chew up another.

Well basicly thats the Problem.

I noticed that it would be way better to concentrate on one or two combat skills but not before i initialy made em "Jack of all trades"

i didnt want to give up on em, so i just try to turn the tides.

Right now i am stuck with a Cannon/energie Jock that wouldnt even hit the ground with his fists, a Energie guy that could just as well use guilded missiles and finaly a guy who could split a hair with his power axe while throwing UGM´s

The money situation is quite desperate ~ 160000 and my current Cannon Titan really does suck (i basicly went for the biggest gun but ignored the brain (BC) running it) AC 20 but BC 1.

So i basicly have the resources to fire one more shot but it has to be a solid one or ill have to start over.

the weird thing is that i enjoy that situation

2x

Sleeping_Dragon · Post by **Sleeping_Dragon** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 4:21 am

First off..... Welcome to the forums!
Secondly, Just started seriously playing around in the factory? Welcome to the other half the game!

If this is one of your 1st attempts I'm impressed. Looking at nothing but the titan itself there only a couple of things that stand out from the printout.

Heat Regs.. like Manchek mentioned the heat regs may be a little more then you need... I wish my titans had this problem

However it does depend some on playstyle. If you find that the heat stay cool all the time, try a heat reg 3.. mabe even a 2. Another option would be to change the armor on the CT to Vicnium, which will raise your heat disappation but free up a bit of wieght. As far as Manchek's remark about Milinia... HERESEY!!:p Milinia is extremely heavy, fairly bulky, and offers the worst protection PER MM of armor. You just have to use more mms to get the same protection as another armor type, it don't protect you any worse then another armor type IF you use more of it (although there are limits). The payoff is commonly worth the price with it's 115% heat dissapation rate.

CBT: you right it's a wee bit thin but not outside of reason, and this is from someone who can be notorious for armoring the CBT with a thick layer of duct tape:D Just with all the short range weapons it looks like other titans are going to be close by and if they get into your hex and you fall.. and they start kicking..

As far as using this with the jock you've mentioned... I'm not sure about the SLs and MGs...if your guy can't hit the ground with his fist.. he really don't want to get in range to use these short range weapons, especially the MGs since they only really shine at point blank range. I'd suggest something more along the range of a Bloodhound or a Penetrator, something almost solely long range and let another jock with some CC skill try and handle titans that come close.... If you don't have many other cannons in your squad definatly stick with cannons... the smoke is a lifesaver!

Since you probably don't have the money to experiment with titan designs alot with your 'real' squad, you may want to build a 'special' squad and make a jock with about the same skills as your 'real' piliot and try out different things that you come up with.

Also when you post a titan can you attach an exchange file? This makes it alot easier for other people to dl your design if they like it and want to play with it or try different changes to offer suggestions. Just use the export button in the factory and export the design you want. This will create a file in the xchange folder (inside the data folder) with a # corrosponding to the titans wieght class. Take that file, zip it, and use that 'manage attachment' function in the forums to attach it to your post.

Hope I helped a little... Keep on ToSing

Manchek · Post by **Manchek** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 10:54 pm

Sleeping_Dragon wrote: As far as Manchek's remark about Milinia... HERESEY!!:p Milinia is extremely heavy, fairly bulky, and offers the worst protection PER MM of armor. You just have to use more mms to get the same protection as another armor type, it don't protect you any worse then another armor type IF you use more of it (although there are limits).

heh Thanks for pointing this out... I never thought of it along these lines.

This will definately have implications in my next design!
-Manchek

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 12:23 am

You should be able to reduce leg [RL, LL] armor from 45 mm to 44 mm without reducing AP from 22. That should save a few bucks on repairs. Also remember if you have high priced equipment you will have high priced repair bills if money is a concern.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 2:39 am

Actually, Millenia *does* provide the least *maximum* APs in any location for any given chassis (since there is a mm limit for any location on any given chassis).

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 2:44 am

rosary wrote:You should be able to reduce leg [RL, LL] armor from 45 mm to 44 mm without reducing AP from 22. That should save a few bucks on repairs.

Actually, it doesn't I think. Because repairs don't take the mm value, but rather the AP value and convert it to mms.
But you save a few bucks on the titan's price tag.

Sleeping_Dragon · Post by **Sleeping_Dragon** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 6:11 am

Thorgrim wrote:Actually, Millenia *does* provide the least *maximum* APs in any location for any given chassis (since there is a mm limit for any location on any given chassis).

I did say there were limits ..... I just didn't say what they were.

A good amount of the heavier titans (and a few of the smaller) do have to use other armor types in locations where the designers want APs greater then what maximum Millinia can provide. Then of course there are the wieght issues.... which anyone who has openned the factory knows all too well. I still think its sorta funny/cool/odd that there are a handful of designs where one body part like the RT is Millinia and the 'mirror-image' bodypart (LT) is Vincinium cause the designer just couldn't squeeze enough extra weight to make them both the heavier Millinia.

IMO, All the armor types are commonly useful (unlike ToS 1.4 where Millinia was only useful in fairly rare instances) It does take a little practice to find which works 'best' in a given situation... with the exception of max. duralloy in the head. Although Iceman can make a reasonable argument agianst even this in a few circumstances.

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:15 am

Sometimes I do think that we made millenia a bit too strong. It made it from the most hated to the most wanted armor type.

2_X_S · Post by **2_X_S** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 1:32 pm

Thanks for the support, it was really helpfull and even so i finaly lost my squad i learned alot (just for the books, that 5th campaign mission is really ~hard~

)

LarkinVB wrote:Sometimes I do think that we made millenia a bit too strong. It made it from the most hated to the most wanted armor type.

From my limited experience i wouldnt say millenia is too strong, to me it seems that titanium is too weak to be usefull (in general). On the other hand i only played around with recon and light Titans so it might not hold true with the bigger ones.

Playing arround in the Factory brought up more questions. i think i did understand the recharge / energy usage described in the manual but there is one information missing (at least i didnt find it)

Lets say i have a titan with a scanner, a heat reg and a engine type 2 (6PU) and two pulse lasers. it is running arround on the battlefield so i should have 1 PU leftover.

Now if i fire one of the pulse lasers, does it just increase the recharge time of the weapon to 10 seconds instead of 8 or doesnt it recharge at all since i dont have 2 PU leftover?

and as a second question, if it does just increase the recharge time what would happen if i fire both pulse lasers.

is that 1 PU divided evenly to both weapons (ie 0.5 PU for each weapon, increased recharge time to 20 seconds) or is it a follow up (ie 1 PU for the first pulse laser recharge time 10 seconds, followed by another 10 seconds for the second pulse laser)?

2x

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 1:43 pm

Titanium is pretty useful in locations where you have little space. Arms in titans with big weapons, sometimes the CT in titans with big engines,... with a good dissipation rate, it's not a bad armor type at all.

As for the PL questions, the PL will recharge at 1PU/sec under those conditions, since there's only 1 free PU. The manual states the maximum restrictions for recharge, not the "requirements". As long as there's power, energy weapons will use what they have. So the answer would be it increases the recycle to 10 secs. As for the 2nd question, one will recharge at 1PU/sec, and the other will wait for available PUs (if you stop running, or turn off your scanner, or the other PL recycles). There's no "divison" of PUs.

Hope that helps.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 1:47 pm

Sleeping_Dragon wrote:I did say there were limits ..... I just didn't say what they were.

Yes, and I noticed that, but by telling Manchek that he was talking heresy, you were saying he was wrong, and he wasn't. He was correct. Maybe not in this particular case, I didn't build the design so I can't tell, but in general he was correct.

widowmaker · Post by **widowmaker** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 2:44 pm

I think the armor types are fairly well balanced. It's hard to call, though; so many things are juggled. Millenia is advantageous for heat dissipation, but it's heavy, bulky, and on larger Titans the difference in AP/mm is a definite downside. Titanium is extremely compact, sometimes giveing more AP with one slot than other armors give with two, but it's heavy. Vicenium is light; if weight is more important than space, this is what's needed. Just watch the heat. Dullaroy, of course, is the strongest armor, but heat dissipation takes a hit. Of course, heat is only an issue in locations that contain part of the heat regulator.

Millenia has it's uses, but if I'm designing a CC or SR Titan that's going to take a beating, I usually upgrade the HR, then slap on the hardier armor. But that's just me.

If any adjustment were to be made to the armors, I think it should be cost. IMHO, Titanium should be the cheapest, then Millenia. All others attributes the same. Yes, it means better protection per mm for less $$, but the heat advantage should cost more. Not that anyone pays attention to the price tag.

widowmaker

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 4:05 pm

Remember that the bigger the reg (# of slots), the more vulnerable it is - to crits, ripped off locations and EMP hits.

Sleeping_Dragon · Post by **Sleeping_Dragon** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 9:04 pm

LarkinVB wrote:Sometimes I do think that we made millenia a bit too strong. It made it from the most hated to the most wanted armor type.

That thought crossed my mind right after I started designing titans with WS, then I realized I was using all the armor types and none of them were 'guarenteed' to be placed on a certian location (dullroy/head the almost exception). It was a big 'shock' to go from something I rarely used to something that goes on a majority of designs. Hugely improved, but not unbalanced, sorta like a race where you go from last to first, but all the runners are still close.
It's not only the improvements to Millinia, but also the 'heat-demotion' of Vicenium. It used to be that Millinia was soooo heavy that you could just go down the list of 'heat-friendly' armors and the second choice of Vicenium which was also the lightest armor, done deal. Now with Titanium taking the second place and still being a heavy armor, you really have to think alot more on the tradeoffs of heat and wieght.