OT: Coronavirus 2, the No Politics Version

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy



OK, we know that Wuhan was the first place actually reporting it as a new virus. But calling it the Wuhan Virus plays into the narrative that they created the virus there and intentionally let it spread to the rest of the world. Let's not get into those conspiracy theories.

I only quoted what was in the article and copied the url. I will not tell people what to call it. I just was reminding people where it was first detected.

Oh, so "I only quoted" and "I was just reminding people" are the same? [:D] Your rhetoric is slipping.

I love how after any post where you call people names you then spam a bunch of posts together with anything to cover your tracks so the moderators won't notice. Very clever.

On the more relevant information here, Manchester and some areas in NW England have been locked down again. It seems the UK is now doing what is necessary early on and trying to stop runaway spikes in any area showing growth. The numbers aren't too bad yet according to what we know, which is good. Much less than some rural counties in the states. (Only using for comparison of data and response, not pointing any fingers).

According to a rolling seven-day rate of new cases of Covid-19 compiled by the PA news agency, Oldham has the second highest rate of new cases per 100,000 people out of all local authorities in England.

The seven-day rate in Oldham jumped from 41.6 to 62.8, with 148 new cases – behind only Blackburn with Darwen.

Other areas reporting notable week-on-week rises in Greater Manchester include Trafford (up from 31.3 to 38.1, with 90 new cases); Manchester (up from 18.6 to 34.3, with 188 new cases); Tameside (up from 12.9 to 28.4, with 64 new cases) and Stockport (up from 13.7 to 22.6, with 66 new cases).

In my home state of Oregon some rural counties have ben rapidly increasing. Umatilla county has 58 per 100,000 right now. That's high desert farming and ranching country.

I post article with information about Manchester and you call that spamming yet you turn around and post more information about Manchester. So you are a self admitted SPAMMER.[8|]

[RangerJoe]

Whole cities and towns to be tested in case of local Covid outbreak using 90 minute procedure
The tests will be used to check hospital and care home staff and patients, but there are plans for more than a million tests a day by winter

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -using-90/

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


I post article with information about Manchester and you call that spamming yet you turn around and post more information about Manchester. So you are a self admitted SPAMMER.[8|]

I believe I was referring to the string of posts you made after you told me "phuc ewe." It's pretty obvious. You and I know what you're doing, and it's just combative. I'm interested in the information and not your interest in "reminding people" where the virus originated, as if that was some unbiased remark. It's not.

In my post on Manchester I was fleshing out information in a readable format on the page rather than forcing someone to click into an article. I value those kinds of posts from others and so try when possible to pick relevant information to give context which someone can follow up by looking into the link. That's been consistent in my posts over time.

[BBfanboy]

It appears you two have differing viewpoints you want to bring forward. Fine - unless something is really bad info, would you please just let it go and not challenge each other's every post?

I appreciate your inputs to help me understand why various groups of people are 'coming from' on their reactions to the virus. It appears that various cultural factors interact with the scientific info to give differing responses and to those groups, their responses are valid. We will not get to common approaches to the virus without being able to separate out the cultural memes. So let's hear from all without shutting them down on minor points.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

It appears you two have differing viewpoints you want to bring forward. Fine - unless something is really bad info, would you please just let it go and not challenge each other's every post?

I appreciate your inputs to help me understand why various groups of people are 'coming from' on their reactions to the virus. It appears that various cultural factors interact with the scientific info to give differing responses and to those groups, their responses are valid. We will not get to common approaches to the virus without being able to separate out the cultural memes. So let's hear from all without shutting them down on minor points.

Sorry. If someone writes "Phuc Ewe" that's not a differing viewpoint. That doesn't belong here. It's just that kind of attitude to disagreement that is so prevalent in today's cultural climate which is making any sort of unified effort against this common threat difficult.

I've never used explicative directed at another mer here and I won't. Disagreement is fine. It isn't and shouldn't be personal unless another member goes there, and at that point I'll call them out.

[RangerJoe]

Who wrote "Phuc Ewe" here?

[RangerJoe]

As acid rain is curtailed, wheat gets less sulfur needed for tasty bread

With lockdowns due to the coronavirus curbing air pollution globally, sulfur deficiency could become even more acute in the U.S. farm belt, soil scientists said, although the effect will likely pale in comparison to gradually reduced emissions over the last 30 years.

https://www.startribune.com/a-sourdough ... fresh=true

Not to mention that SO3 actually helps to cool the atmosphere! Then it fertilizes the plants that absorb CO2 then the plants feed us!

[RangerJoe]

Parents unhappy with school options assemble learning 'pods'

https://www.startribune.com/parents-unh ... fresh=true

Apparently some professional educators are upset about this because it might take taxpayers , i.e. the parents, money away from them.

[RangerJoe]

'Too many are selfish': US nears 5 million virus cases

"We all know that alcohol changes your judgment," he (Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam ) said. "You just don't care as much about social distancing after you've had a couple of drinks. That's when the virus gets spread."

https://www.startribune.com/too-many-ar ... 572004952/

Maybe some of them want to spread something else, like the Egyptian Flu!

[tolsdorff]

sad to see that the incessant denigration has forced Dan to leave the stage. The damage to the economy has become beyond all measure, almost unrepairable. ridiculous Angst for a barely lethal virus.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

sad to see that the incessant denigration has forced Dan to leave the stage. The damage to the economy has become beyond all measure, almost unrepairable. ridiculous Angst for a barely lethal virus.

I agree. His last post and log in information:

Last Post 7/5/2020 5:50:45 PM
Last Login 7/5/2020 5:50:48 PM

I hope that those individuals are ecstatic about driving him an others away. Political censorship.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

sad to see that the incessant denigration has forced Dan to leave the stage. The damage to the economy has become beyond all measure, almost unrepairable. ridiculous Angst for a barely lethal virus.

Know anyone who's been on a ventilator yet? Might want to ask them what they think rather than dismissing it out of hand.

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

sad to see that the incessant denigration has forced Dan to leave the stage. The damage to the economy has become beyond all measure, almost unrepairable. ridiculous Angst for a barely lethal virus.

I agree. His last post and log in information:

Last Post 7/5/2020 5:50:45 PM
Last Login 7/5/2020 5:50:48 PM

I hope that those individuals are ecstatic about driving him an others away. Political censorship.

Oh please, spare us the hagiography.

Nor was it political censorship - his viewpoint was subjected to robust critique and found wanting.

Some of the discussions on the previous thread would be interesting to revisit given how things have panned out.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

sad to see that the incessant denigration has forced Dan to leave the stage. The damage to the economy has become beyond all measure, almost unrepairable. ridiculous Angst for a barely lethal virus.

I miss his posts and hope that all is well with him and his family.

This idea that he was somehow censored is well off beam though. Unless something happened that we are not party to there was nothing done by the moderating team to restrict his posting. So it basically boils down to a couple of posters that he was engaged in circular and increasingly acrimonious discussions with. There was nothing to stop him blocking their posts if it was bothering him that much.

To be honest I think it is more a case of him having completed three pretty intense and long term games/AARs over the last year or so and deciding to take a step back and concentrate on other things and enjoy the great outdoors this summer rather than arguing about Coronavirus. I hope that is the case and that it is working out for him.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

sad to see that the incessant denigration has forced Dan to leave the stage. The damage to the economy has become beyond all measure, almost unrepairable. ridiculous Angst for a barely lethal virus.

Know anyone who's been on a ventilator yet? Might want to ask them what they think rather than dismissing it out of hand.

I don't give a shyte. Especially when nursing homes are/were forced to take people seriously ill from Covid-19, the disease caused by the SARS-2 corona virus, first known in Wuhan China.

Besides, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

sad to see that the incessant denigration has forced Dan to leave the stage. The damage to the economy has become beyond all measure, almost unrepairable. ridiculous Angst for a barely lethal virus.

I agree. His last post and log in information:

Last Post 7/5/2020 5:50:45 PM
Last Login 7/5/2020 5:50:48 PM

I hope that those individuals are ecstatic about driving him an others away. Political censorship.

Oh please, spare us the hagiography.

Why, feeling guilty?

Nor was it political censorship - his viewpoint was subjected to robust critique and found wanting.

Yes, it was political censorship. The constant denigration of sources plus the constant of "Your states should do it the same way my state did. Send Civid-19 patients to nursing home so those people will get sick and die." Plus the "You should have governmental healthcare where you are. There would be no illness then!" types of attitudes.

Some of the discussions on the previous thread would be interesting to revisit given how things have panned out.

In person? [:D]

Same attitude, no changes.

Why should we have more discussion like were previously done on the SARS-2 corona virus first known in Wuhan China? Then exported around the world, starting from Wuhan, China?

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I don't give a shyte.

That much is obvious.

Especially when nursing homes are/were forced to take people seriously ill from Covid-19, the disease caused by the SARS-2 corona virus, first known in Wuhan China.

Besides, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

Logical inconsistency detected.

If the logic for returning those with possible Covid-19 to nursing homes was driven by need to preserve healthcare capacity for a wider outbreak, is that not a case where the needs of the many are outweighing the needs of the few?

Why, feeling guilty?

No, just find your search for a martyr funny and quite pathetic.

Yes, it was political censorship.

Right. How? I mean in practical terms. I'm not a Matrix mod. They've not been involved, as far as I am aware.

The constant denigration of sources

Critique of evidence presented is always a part of any worthwhile debate. The quality of sources presented was quite variable and actual engagement was evidence was fairly limited.

the constant of "Your states should do it the same way my state did. Send Civid-19 patients to nursing home so those people will get sick and die."

As has been discussed earlier in this thread, we've a pretty solid idea of what has worked and what didn't.

Plus the "You should have governmental healthcare where you are. There would be no illness then!" types of attitudes.

The advantages inherent in a national healthcare system in the context of a pandemic should be obvious.

In person?

Preferably not until travel is safe again. Electronic mediums work just fine.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Having your views challenged is not censorship.

I guess if you had a situation where you had a single poster with on point of view and 10 posters with opposing views that jumped on them every time they expressed themselves you could have some kind of 'indirect' censorship but as far as I'm concerned that has never been the case on this thread or the previous one. There has always been a broad range of viewpoints and no 'orthodoxy of opinion' discouraging people in general and CR more specifically from expressing their views.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I don't give a shyte.

That much is obvious.

Especially when nursing homes are/were forced to take people seriously ill from Covid-19, the disease caused by the SARS-2 corona virus, first known in Wuhan China.

Besides, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

Logical inconsistency detected.

You need to study logic again.

If the logic for returning those with possible Covid-19 to nursing homes was driven by need to preserve healthcare capacity for a wider outbreak, is that not a case where the needs of the many are outweighing the needs of the few?

That just exposed more people to the Wuhan China originating SARS-2 corona virus which caused more people to become infected with the SARS-2 corona virus developing CoVid-19. But then they died which helped lower the costs of taking care of those individuals.

Why, feeling guilty?

No, just find your search for a martyr funny and quite pathetic.

You should feel guilty. I have no need to search for a martyr.

Yes, it was political censorship.

Right. How? I mean in practical terms. I'm not a Matrix mod. They've not been involved, as far as I am aware.

In practical terms, the verbal abuse of the person and the person's sources.

The constant denigration of sources

Critique of evidence presented is always a part of any worthwhile debate. The quality of sources presented was quite variable and actual engagement was evidence was fairly limited.

Not when it becomes personal.

the constant of "Your states should do it the same way my state did. Send Civid-19 patients to nursing home so those people will get sick and die."

As has been discussed earlier in this thread, we've a pretty solid idea of what has worked and what didn't.

You are badly mistaken. There was no solid idea of what has worked and what did not. Even now, I doubt if the best treatments are being used.

Plus the "You should have governmental healthcare where you are. There would be no illness then!" types of attitudes.

The advantages inherent in a national healthcare system in the context of a pandemic should be obvious.

That is purely political.

In person?

Preferably not until travel is safe again. Electronic mediums work just fine.

Too bad that you do not want to meet in person. Especially where I live . . .

[Sammy5IsAlive]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Especially when nursing homes are/were forced to take people seriously ill from Covid-19, the disease caused by the SARS-2 corona virus, first known in Wuhan China.

Besides, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

Logical inconsistency detected.

If the logic for returning those with possible Covid-19 to nursing homes was driven by need to preserve healthcare capacity for a wider outbreak, is that not a case where the needs of the many are outweighing the needs of the few?

At least from a UK viewpoint that decision appears to have cost far more lives proportionately than any of the other decisions taken by US politicians that we might disagree with. I do have some sympathy for our politicians/scientists/health officials getting spooked by what happened in the hospitals in Lombardy but in hindsight it was a colossal error

Plus the "You should have governmental healthcare where you are. There would be no illness then!" types of attitudes.

The advantages inherent in a national healthcare system in the context of a pandemic should be obvious.

I'm very much an advocate of universal healthcare. But when the archetypal example of that is in a country that has one of the worst death rates worldwide and other European countries with similarly nationalised health services (Spain/Italy/Sweden) continue to have worse numbers than the US I hardly think it is a position of strength to start criticising their health system

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

Having your views challenged is not censorship.

I guess if you had a situation where you had a single poster with on point of view and 10 posters with opposing views that jumped on them every time they expressed themselves you could have some kind of 'indirect' censorship but as far as I'm concerned that has never been the case on this thread or the previous one. There has always been a broad range of viewpoints and no 'orthodoxy of opinion' discouraging people in general and CR more specifically from expressing their views.

When people discount the information presented because they do not like the source's viewpoint, then that is political especially when the person is directly or indirectly attacked.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive


I'm very much an advocate of universal healthcare. But when the archetypal example of that is in a country that has one of the worst death rates worldwide and other European countries with similarly nationalised health services (Spain/Italy/Sweden) continue to have worse numbers than the US I hardly think it is a position of strength to start criticising their health system

Concern over costs for users exist in the US system that are not present to the same extent in the Spain/Italy/Sweden systems.

In many ways the already existing problem (which was already fairly serious) has worsened over the past few months with rising unemployment - both in terms of losing work related health benefits and financial concerns.