AI cheats with teleports?

[Bleblable]

Hello,

so my planes bombed CA Chester near Java and in few turns AI run with it to Singapore where ship stayed for one turn. The next turn Chester was already in Aden (repaired a little so AI probably started repairing Chester in Singapore and teleport happened later in turn). It's probably a bug but given the situation it looks like AI is cheating by saving his ship by teleporting them off-map.

[Sardaukar]

AI does not try to "save" ships by teleporting.

AI logic is: It tries to form task force but does not have enough suitable ships in port. In that case it can teleport suitable ships from other ports to be able to form TF it seeks to form.

[Bleblable]

So it's normal for AI to teleport his ships, didn't know. I don't know what for AI might need that damaged Chester for in Aden but ok.

[Bo Rearguard]

From a psychological point of view it might be advantageous to think of the AI as a weaselly cheater. It motivates you to mobilize all your resources to crush the scurvy rat-fink AI even more.

[Reg]

It's as Sardaukar said. The developers have explained a number of times that the only way to get an AI to work for a game this complex (where the number of possible moves is close to infinity) on a consumer PC is to allow the AI to use some abstractions like building task forces without having to physically move them there. Look how difficult it is for you to get every ship to where you want them.

The concept that the AI gains advantage over the player by doing things a certain way is simply beyond it's abilities. It is just fulfilling it's programming, oblivious to any wider implications that you perceive.

Please be happy the AI can give you a good game and is capable of surprising you. Go along for the ride and don't worry about too much about what is happening under the hood. 😀

[RangerJoe]

So don't worry about cheating against the AI. It cheats as a matter of course. Of course it will also take restricted divisions out of the West Coast.

[Bleblable]

I'm not particularly angry at it, I just thought that it might be a bug, if it's just how AI works I'm okay with it. And I'm also cheating as I like to load game as enemy sometimes to see what he is up to (mostly to see how game mechanics work, like how fast they lost supplies in a long combat and how it affects their capabilities etc., how successfully I can stop enemy supply ships if I know they are going to the given place etc.).

[Sardaukar]

By the way, if not yet using then, you should use Andy Mac's improved AI files. They are way more devious than 2010 AI files.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4257473

Also, when playing as Allies vs. IJ AI, note post 38 here:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... 2365533%3B

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Bleblable

I'm not particularly angry at it, I just thought that it might be a bug, if it's just how AI works I'm okay with it. And I'm also cheating as I like to load game as enemy sometimes to see what he is up to (mostly to see how game mechanics work, like how fast they lost supplies in a long combat and how it affects their capabilities etc., how successfully I can stop enemy supply ships if I know they are going to the given place etc.).

When you are learning the game, studying both sides is a great way to find out what happens when you try things. You can even play both sides (in the head-to-head mode) so that you learn what their strengths and weaknesses are. After doing this for a while it is best to play a challenging game or two from each side to learn long-term issues for each side.

[PaxMondo]

So there are restrictions on the teleport ... the ship can't be engaged and I think there are DL limits as well, meaning if the ship has high DL, it can't be selected for teleport. If Bill or Andy are on, they might be able to confirm without breaking NDA as the devs were pretty open about this one aspect of the game.

[PaxMondo]

So rather than thinking of this as cheating, think of it as you ID'sd the wrong t ship, correct class, but wrong one. And the one you thought you had, slipped out of Singers ... this is essentially what the devs were saying. If you lose sight of the target, then the AI can pluck it ... and the ocean is a big enough space and in this era, ships could and did slip out of nets all the time ... there was no "eye in the sky" like there is now ...

[RangerJoe]

Even now, ships and planes can evade the eye in the sky if they really want to.

[Treetop64]

It's a necessary mechanic.

AI often must use such advantages just to stand a chance against a human opponent. Especially once the game goes into 1943 and beyond.

Some may argue, yours-truly included, that sometimes the AI doesn't get to "cheat" enough. Even with player imposed handicaps and "home rules".

AndyMac's scenarios are a vast improvement over stock ones, if you're not already using them. I use Scenario 100 but there are several, and you really can't go wrong with any of them. The AI will still use its inherent mechanical advantages, again it's a necessity against human players.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

So there are restrictions on the teleport ... the ship can't be engaged and I think there are DL limits as well, meaning if the ship has high DL, it can't be selected for teleport. If Bill or Andy are on, they might be able to confirm without breaking NDA as the devs were pretty open about this one aspect of the game.

You are overcomplicating it.[:)]

Read my posts in this thread wherein I also provide links back to the devs comments on the subject.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... t&#3957773

The devs did try out various extensive limitations on ship teleportation but the limitations killed the AI. Ultimately they had to settle for minor limitations which could be accommodated by the scripts structure.

Alfred

[Bleblable]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

By the way, if not yet using then, you should use Andy Mac's improved AI files. They are way more devious than 2010 AI files.

Will it affect already started game or I would have to start a new one? I don't really want to start 3rd game without getting to later date again.

[Platoonist]

ORIGINAL: Bleblable


Will it affect already started game or I would have to start a new one? I don't really want to start 3rd game without getting to later date again.

You'd have to install them first and then start a new game.

[Treetop64]

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

ORIGINAL: Bleblable


Will it affect already started game or I would have to start a new one? I don't really want to start 3rd game without getting to later date again.

You'd have to install them first and then start a new game.

It's worth it, though.

Even if you're like me, and literally spend months setting up for the first turn.

Get Scen100 and start a new game already! [:)]

[Bleblable]

ORIGINAL: Treetop64

It's worth it, though.

Even if you're like me, and literally spend months setting up for the first turn.

Get Scen100 and start a new game already! [:)]

I will just make a few more turns to check some things and will do this. It might be actually good idea because save I'm playing right now is actually from year ago (and I had break from the game for that year) so I almost feel like continuing someone's else game. And this time I will try to play like I would play versus actual player and not exploiting bot (Like I see that he never moves 5 stacks of army near Ichang so I leave them alone and conquer China without worrying about them at all).

[Remenents]

Had something similar. Playing a Allies, I bombed a fleet consisting of 2 carriers and some cruisers. I sank 2 crusiers and damaged both carriers. Next turn... the TF was simply gone. So I loaded the game as both players to see what the hell happened, suddenly, their TF that was near Gudalcanal, was now in Tokoyo. Wth? What kind of garbage is that? I mean,if the AI can cheat, it makes me not even want to play. Teleporting ships that far is just silly.

[Shellshock]

ORIGINAL: Remenents

Had something similar. Playing a Allies, I bombed a fleet consisting of 2 carriers and some cruisers. I sank 2 crusiers and damaged both carriers. Next turn... the TF was simply gone. So I loaded the game as both players to see what the hell happened, suddenly, their TF that was near Gudalcanal, was now in Tokoyo. Wth? What kind of garbage is that? I mean,if the AI can cheat, it makes me not even want to play. Teleporting ships that far is just silly.

You might want to read the thread Alfred posted a liltte more closely--

ORIGINAL: Alfred
An existing on map TF is never teleported. It complies with the same exact movement factors which confront a human player. This includes fuel consumption and availability. A common complaint from players who only play against the computer is that later in the war IJN activity drops alarmingly. This is usually due either to the script not being called into play or much more commonly, a lack of fuel at the ports where the bulk of the IJN resides.

Teleportation in the game usually involves ship being pulled from port to form a TF.