"insert funny title here" DBB-C Jorge(A) vs Runnersan(J)

[Evoken]

[&o]Thats a serious dent to Japanese surface fleet , well done!

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Yes, it is a dent on an already dented fleet:

in heavy cruisers; he will come out of this battle with an empire total of 3 available and 3 requiring repair, assuming he manages to save them. It is reasonable to think at least one or two will sink before reaching Soerabaja

Available:
Myoko
Nachi
Chokai

At risk:
Suzuya
Mikuma


Sunk:
Haguro
Tone
Chikuma
Aoba
Kinugasa
Atago
Mogami
Kumano
Ashigara
Takao
Kako
Furutaka
Maya EDIT: sinking confirmed on Jan 31.43

[RangerJoe]

Congratulations [&o] on the to the Japanese fleet!

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Yes, it is a dent on an already dented fleet:

in heavy cruisers; he will come out of this battle with an empire total of 3 available and 3 requiring repair, assuming he manages to save them. It is reasonable to think at least one or two will sink before reaching Soerabaja

Available:
Myoko
Nachi
Chokai

At risk:
Suzuya
Mikuma
Maya

Sunk:
Haguro
Tone
Chikuma
Aoba
Kinugasa
Atago
Mogami
Kumano
Ashigara
Takao
Kako
Furutaka

Very nice! Those FP losses suggest at least one more cruiser sank.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Yes, and I would bet it was Naka, because of the 2 torpedo hits

Tomorrow, with some luck, the old BB TF and the heavy cruiser TF will find out... then they will be attacked by LBAs and carrier TF, so there is a very good chance I will have losses, still even heavy losses are acceptable if I can sink another couple heavy cruisers

It is not everyday that the Allies can defeat and sink a big cruiser SCTF, in a gun battle, without any loss

[Lowpe]

Perfect trap, Jorge.[&o]

You got him after a bombardment, with multiple task forces in the daytime. IJN advantages all nullified!

[ushakov]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 26,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 26,000 yards
CL Nagara sunk by BB Prince of Wales at 26,000 yards
DD Makinami sunk by BB Prince of Wales at 24,000 yards


Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 26,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 26,000 yards
DD Kawakaze sunk by BB Prince of Wales at 26,000 yards

That's uh, quite some gunnery there!

[RangerJoe]

The CL Naka only carries one float plane.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

yes, British superb training in daytime fighting, plus all the additional experience PoW has win in a year of fighting

some real examples of similar long range hits are Scharnhorst vs Glorious or Warspite vs Guilio Cesare

Probably not something that could be done in real life against a small destroyer (or 2 [:D] on the same day); although a near miss would likely sink any small vessel

[Jorge_Stanbury]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The CL Naka only carries one float plane.

the way I read it is:
Naka and Nagara --> one Pete each
Kako and Furutaka --> the other 5 Jakes (2 each + maybe a spare?) EDITED: I thought it carried 3 FPs, but it is only 2

of course it is a total guess

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The CL Naka only carries one float plane.

the way I read it is:
Naka and Nagara --> one Pete each
Kako and Furutaka --> the other 5 Jakes (2 each + maybe a spare?) EDITED: I thought it carried 3 FPs, but it is only 2

of course it is a total guess

Plus the FPs that diverted, such as Jakes. So you may have sunk more ships than you think.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Dec14.42

Based on this new turn's naval search, I think RangerJoe was correct and 3 heavy cruisers and 2 light cruisers sank last turn,
additionally, there are 3 more float planes down this turn, which means another cruiser sank

What I know for sure is that Suzuya and Makigumo survived, as they were attacked, this turn, by the slow BB SCTF
results were underwhelming to say the least, it seems those old battleships are useless even against damaged ships

Suzuya will need yard time, but should survive



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Endeh at 65,114, Range 26,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Suzuya, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Makigumo, Shell hits 3, heavy fires

Allied Ships
BB Maryland, Shell hits 1
BB Nevada, Shell hits 1
DD Gansevoort
DD Gillespie
DD Sims
DD Hughes
DD Anderson
DD Mustin
DD Russell
DD Walke

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 26,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 26,000 yards
BB Nevada engages CA Suzuya at 26,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards
BB Nevada engages CA Suzuya at 24,000 yards
BB Maryland engages DD Makigumo at 24,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards
BB Maryland engages CA Suzuya at 20,000 yards
Range closes to 17,000 yards
BB Nevada engages CA Suzuya at 17,000 yards
BB Maryland engages DD Makigumo at 17,000 yards
DD Makigumo engages DD Hughes at 17,000 yards
DD Sims engages DD Makigumo at 17,000 yards
DD Gansevoort engages DD Makigumo at 17,000 yards
Range closes to 16,000 yards
BB Nevada engages CA Suzuya at 16,000 yards
CA Suzuya engages DD Walke at 16,000 yards
DD Russell engages DD Makigumo at 16,000 yards
DD Gillespie engages DD Makigumo at 16,000 yards
DD Gansevoort engages DD Makigumo at 16,000 yards
Range closes to 15,000 yards
BB Maryland engages CA Suzuya at 15,000 yards
DD Hughes engages DD Makigumo at 15,000 yards
DD Walke engages DD Makigumo at 15,000 yards
DD Russell engages DD Makigumo at 15,000 yards
DD Mustin engages DD Makigumo at 15,000 yards
DD Anderson engages DD Makigumo at 15,000 yards
DD Hughes engages DD Makigumo at 15,000 yards
DD Sims engages DD Makigumo at 15,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards
BB Maryland engages CA Suzuya at 12,000 yards
BB Maryland engages DD Makigumo at 12,000 yards
DD Walke engages DD Makigumo at 12,000 yards
DD Russell engages DD Makigumo at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards
BB Nevada engages CA Suzuya at 11,000 yards
BB Maryland engages CA Suzuya at 11,000 yards
DD Walke engages DD Makigumo at 11,000 yards
DD Makigumo engages DD Mustin at 11,000 yards
CA Suzuya engages DD Sims at 11,000 yards
Range increases to 17,000 yards
BB Nevada engages CA Suzuya at 17,000 yards
BB Maryland engages DD Makigumo at 17,000 yards
CA Suzuya engages DD Walke at 17,000 yards
DD Makigumo engages DD Hughes at 17,000 yards
Range increases to 23,000 yards
BB Maryland engages DD Makigumo at 23,000 yards
Range increases to 29,000 yards
BB Nevada engages CA Suzuya at 29,000 yards
BB Maryland engages DD Makigumo at 29,000 yards
Task forces break off...

[Jorge_Stanbury]

While the old battleships found and fought Suzuya, the heavy cruiser TF only found enemy aircraft, lots of them. But I guess the AA power of 6 bofors armed heavy cruisers, was too much. attacks ended with several bombers shot down and no damage to the USN...
This is actually an issue, because my opponent is getting demoralized... I am worried the game might end soon,



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Endeh at 64,113

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 16
B5N2 Kate x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 2 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
CA San Francisco
CA Quincy

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Endeh at 64,113

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 28 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 2 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
CA Chicago
CA Quincy

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Endeh at 64,113

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 21 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 11
D4Y1 Judy x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y1 Judy: 3 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
CA Chicago
CA Salt Lake City

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 2000' *
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Endeh at 64,113

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 3 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
CA Salt Lake City

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Endeh at 64,113

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 6 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
CA Chicago
CA Northampton

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp

[Jorge_Stanbury]

other news:

- P-70s once again shot down night bombers
- tanks at Celebes had some success against retreating enemy troops



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Manado , at 75,99

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 70 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 3

Allied aircraft
P-70 Havoc x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 4000 feet *
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
18th FG/6th FS with P-70 Havoc (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 4000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes

Some CAP have air radar


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Manado , at 75,99

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 33 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 2

Allied aircraft
P-70 Havoc x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 4000 feet *
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
18th FG/6th FS with P-70 Havoc (9 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 4000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 4000.
Raid is overhead

Some CAP have air radar

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 65,105 (near Makassar)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 13850 troops, 123 guns, 36 vehicles, Assault Value = 402

Defending force 780 troops, 9 guns, 152 vehicles, Assault Value = 96

Japanese adjusted assault: 43

Allied adjusted defense: 225

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 5

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker: disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
448 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 35 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 16 (1 destroyed, 15 disabled)

Assaulting units:
54th Division
Sasebo 5th SNLF

Defending units:
763rd Tank Battalion
637th Tank Destroyer Battalion


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 65,105 (near Makassar)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 762 troops, 9 guns, 151 vehicles, Assault Value = 84

Defending force 13541 troops, 123 guns, 36 vehicles, Assault Value = 369

Allied adjusted assault: 51

Japanese adjusted defense: 199

Allied assault odds: 1 to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
166 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
763rd Tank Battalion
637th Tank Destroyer Battalion

Defending units:
54th Division
Sasebo 5th SNLF

[Lowpe]

Those are poorly executed attacks on your cruisers and bad weather to boot in the morning.

Unfortunately, Japan is using poor tactics and frittering away their inherent advantage in fighting you here and at this time. You have shown how you like to structure your task forces...and Japan hasn't come up with a counter.


I am sure Japan feels frustrated and this just kind of snowballs to where they get either excessively timid or excessively reckless.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

Yes, that tendency to send single TFs close to known Allied bases had been his doom; it was the same when I killed the KB, his lone TF was at Palmyra, very near PH. and torpedoes were already spent after 2 days of raiding

His problem now, is that he run out of counters; his fleet is so diminished that he can no longer seriously protect more than one theater, in the meantime, I am getting more and more reinforcements

[witpqs]

[BBfanboy]

Re: your P-70 NFs - I wonder if their presence also lifts the D/L on the enemy bombers that helps the flak shoot them down? Have you noticed flak being more effective now that you have the NFs or do they usually get one of the enemy bombers anyway?

[Jorge_Stanbury]

I also have noticed flak is more effective, I don't know if it is related or if just a coincidence

but at least one plane gets shot down daily by Manado AA; this is last turn


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 15, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Manado , at 75,99

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 14 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 4

Allied aircraft
P-70 Havoc x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 6000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
18th FG/6th FS with P-70 Havoc (6 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 4000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 7000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 8 minutes

Some CAP have air radar


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Manado , at 75,99

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 16 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft
P-70 Havoc x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 4000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
18th FG/6th FS with P-70 Havoc (9 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 4000 , scrambling fighters to 6000.
Raid is overhead

Some CAP have air radar


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Manado , at 75,99

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 12 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 8

Allied aircraft
P-70 Havoc x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 4000 feet *
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
18th FG/6th FS with P-70 Havoc (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 4000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 4000.
Raid is overhead

Some CAP have air radar

[Lowpe]

Flak is such a game inside a game, and so heavily abstracted.

But DL plays a huge role. Try night bombing in Dec of 1941 a base with AA guns, but no searchlights or radar or CAP. Then do it again with searchlights and radar and cap.

Even the most pitiful CAP planes, and I mean Petes on 10% CAP with 40 air to air skill, when combined with radar & searchlights and AA that can effectively fire...will seriously degrade bomber effectiveness to the point it is almost not worth doing.

Does the DL change during the course of the bombing run? Unknown.

Then the question becomes does the radar equipped CAP effect time to target....and the answer seems to be no. You might therefor assume that the NF is not improving the accuracy of the AA since these calculations seem to be prior to combat.

Does the combined wear and tear, hits inflicted by the NF, and then hits inflicted by AA cause more KIAs in hex...absolutely. Is the AA more effective because of the NF -- absolutely yes, but it is definitely unclear if the NF is causing the AA to fire more accurately rather than cumulative damage.