So I've started making turn-based 2D games. Suggestions on a WW2 subject?

[Simulacra53]

Yeah, without an idea of scale and aim it is hard to see the forrest through the trees.

Do you want to create a symmetrical game with both sides having roughly the same chance to win, or do you consider asymmetrical scenarios as well, with different victory conditions? Will both sides be playable? Complex scenarios, complex AI*

The risk of obscure battles is lack of interested players.
Famous battles, beaten track.

In the end it may be easier to develop your engine according to your taste and skill and adapt it from there. Just saying pick your own fight [:D]

*generally accepted term

[berto]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Thanks for your suggestions. I'm especially glad for your advice because you have such extensive experience coding wargames. Both Guadalcanal and CBI (probably without much China) sound exciting to me.

I am not suggesting that these topics are doable. They are just my selfish suggestions of some less well covered game topics.

I love naval/air stuff, but I'm not sure how I would handle naval assets in a small area like Guadalcanal. Does one just treat them as hard-coded reinforcements that come and go on a fixed schedule? Or maybe give the player some influence over when they arrive?

The CBI is a large enough theater that naval reinforcement isn't as much an issue, since naval assets would be based on-map. But it being a larger theater also would presumably make things more complex. Then again, Advanced Squad Leader is more complex than Axis & Allies, so scale isn't everything.

My suggested Guadalcanal game would be about the larger campaign, not focusing on just the land battle for the island itself. So, not "small area like Guadalcanal". Think more like large area encompassing the Solomon Islands extending as far northwestward as Rabaul (Bougainville).

Whatever you do, get yourself a dedicated team in it for the long haul. Don't think you can do it all by yourself. Nowadays, most likely you can't.

[Grotius]

ORIGINAL: berto
My suggested Guadalcanal game would be about the larger campaign, not focusing on just the land battle for the island itself. ...

Ah, well the South Pacific is probably my favorite theater in the entire war. It's also somewhat well-covered, though; "Uncommon Valor," the precursor to the WITP games, was terrific, and there are good board games on the subject too. But I'll think on it. Much as I enjoy the naval/air system in UV and the WITP series, there's still room for innovation there.

Whatever you do, get yourself a dedicated team in it for the long haul. Don't think you can do it all by yourself. Nowadays, most likely you can't.

Most likely not. I have friends who are artists, sound engineers, musicians, and voice actors, and I would likely go to them. I myself have as much experience in 2D art as I do in programming, and I know I'd enjoy making art assets.

And the coding certainly has its challenges. Berto, you work with an established hex engine, but I'm looking at creating a hex grid from scratch. I've been reading various articles on how to represent hex grids -- with cube coordinates, axial coordinates, offset coordinates, or some other way. Then there's pathfinding, and AI. Huge challenges, but fascinating ones.

[Grotius]

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

The risk of obscure battles is lack of interested players.
Famous battles, beaten track.

Yep, something of a Catch-22. To borrow a term from a certain war-in-the-Med novel.

[ernieschwitz]

The CBI is a large enough theater that naval reinforcement isn't as much an issue, since naval assets would be based on-map. But it being a larger theater also would presumably make things more complex. Then again, Advanced Squad Leader is more complex than Axis & Allies, so scale isn't everything.

That's the first time (and only I hope) that I've seen ASL being compated to Axis & Allies. The more appropriate comparison would be Rise and decline of the Third Reich (3rd Reich), or maybe even World in Flames.

[dazoline II]

A battle to look at would be Attu in 1943. Although largely one sided it was rather tough combat in the North Pacific.

[Grotius]

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

That's the first time (and only I hope) that I've seen ASL being compated to Axis & Allies. The more appropriate comparison would be Rise and decline of the Third Reich (3rd Reich), or maybe even World in Flames.

Good point! Thanks.

ORIGINAL: dazoline II

A battle to look at would be Attu in 1943. Although largely one sided it was rather tough combat in the North Pacific.

Oooh, I would love to learn more about Attu. It's often fun in WITP/AE, even at that game's zoomed-out scale. Great idea. Thanks.

[Capt. Harlock]

I love naval/air stuff, but I'm not sure how I would handle naval assets in a small area like Guadalcanal. Does one just treat them as hard-coded reinforcements that come and go on a fixed schedule? Or maybe give the player some influence over when they arrive?

My personal preference would be against a hard-coded reinforcement schedule: the players then know exactly what ships the other side gets, and when. There is of course the idea of a point system, where each side gets a certain number of "influence" points and each ship has a specific cost. But one other possibility might be a request and probability system. The player can make requests, and they have a higher or lower chance of being granted according to the ship. If one side is behind, the grant probability might go up as HQ worries more about that theater. (And the game would be balanced towards the losing side.)

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: Grotius
So I think it would be fun to try my hand at a small, not-too-ambitious, turn-based, 2D hex-and-counter wargame. I know WW2 is done to death...

How about simple boardgame classics, like AH Afrika Korps or The Russian Campaign? Yes, WW2 is done to death but with more complexity. KISS. Those old classics were fun to play, and play over and over. Some of these new games are more like work than fun.

[RangerJoe]

Tobruk then, the map is easy!

[Grotius]

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

But one other possibility might be a request and probability system. The player can make requests, and they have a higher or lower chance of being granted according to the ship.

I like this idea. I'll think on it. Thanks.

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

How about simple boardgame classics, like AH Afrika Korps or The Russian Campaign? Yes, WW2 is done to death but with more complexity. KISS. Those old classics were fun to play, and play over and over. Some of these new games are more like work than fun.

I played the hell out of The Russia Campaign. Simple, straightforward wargaming. I actually never played Afrika Korps. But I certainly played other simple AH classics: Gettysburg, D-Day, Tactics II. D-Day I played over and over, trying each landing area. Anyway, I agree that overly-complex games can feel like work. And for my first effort at coding a wargame, I need to focus on something achievable. I've made Tetris and chess and a cardgame, but those are all several orders of magnitude less involved than a wargame.

Tobruk then, the map is easy!

A few acres of sand, yes? (Cf. Voltaire's description of Quebec, which Martin Wallace borrowed for his boardgame "A few acres of snow.")

[RangerJoe]

I did send you a pm.

[Grotius]

You sent me a PM? I don't see it in my inbox.

[Grotius]

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

If you want something that hardly anyone else has done before, try the Madagascar Campaign: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Madagascar

(don't let the term "battle" fool you; it actually took six months.)

I somehow missed this suggestion. Cool idea, and a useful link. Thanks!

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

You sent me a PM? I don't see it in my inbox.

Then something happened to it.

[Eambar]

One of the least covered campaigns from WW2 is the New Guinea campaign, Jan 42-Aug 45 in the South-West Pacific. Has land-air-sea, some real strategic decisions, tough terrain and conditions (could actually model non-combat casualties as they were extensive in this theatre).

Throw in Macarthur, Yamamoto and the politics of the Pac War and there's a lot to work with.

One of the best sources for this campaign is James P. Duffy's War at the End of the World:Douglas MacArthur and the Forgotten Fight For New Guinea, 1942-1945

Cheers

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Doggie3

One of the least covered campaigns from WW2 is the New Guinea campaign, Jan 42-Aug 45 in the South-West Pacific. Has land-air-sea, some real strategic decisions, tough terrain and conditions (could actually model non-combat casualties as they were extensive in this theatre).

Throw in Macarthur, Yamamoto and the politics of the Pac War and there's a lot to work with.

One of the best sources for this campaign is James P. Duffy's War at the End of the World:Douglas MacArthur and the Forgotten Fight For New Guinea, 1942-1945

Cheers

Don't forget that if the Japanese are successful in repelling an attack, they might get some fresh meat - literally.

[Grotius]

Thanks for that suggestion, Doggie3. You're right, the New Guinea campaign is not covered much. WITP/AE does include it, but not in the kind of detail you're talking about. More food for thought...

[wodin]

Stalingrad, with specific house to house fighting mechanics.

[76mm]

Well, if you're really feeling ambitious, you could make an operational-level WWII wargame construction kit. Then everyone could get what they want!