More feedback on 1.05

[Numdydar]

It really depends on if you want this to be a historical game or not.

HOI 4 was designed for a balanced game game regardless of the differences between the powers in real life. As an example a LV 2 fighter in HOI 4 has the same stats whether it's a US, German, etc. plane. Which is really stupid. But I still think it is a good game as long as you can accept the fact that it is a sandbox in a WWII like setting. But an historical game, definitely not.

So to fix Russia's Far East problem historically, if Japan signs the non-aggression pact with Russia, then Vladivostok should be off limits to Japan to do anything. If they do then it automatic war against the Russians at least. It should only have a minor impact on US entry or even no effect as the US did not care much about the troubles of Russia.

If Japan does NOT sign the non-aggression pact, then Russia should get some automatic boost to its MMPs every turn as Russia would have had to increase their military production knowing that Japan could go to war with them. Maybe even provide some additional troops in the Far East for X amount of MMPs per turn for Russia.

For the record, the lend lease through Vladivostok only started in Oct '41. But 50% of all lend lease came through there. So there should be some trigger to have this start up. Germany at war with Russia and capturing certain cities in Russia, maybe Rostov? Or some others? Regardless it should not start up as soon as Russia is at war with Germany.

As far as Japan invading HI, it is absurd. A 'simple?' way to fix this is to prevent any invasion from occurring if the invasion hex is NOT within a friendly aircraft range. I.E. an actual on map land based air unit has to be within range of an invasion hex. OR neither side has land based air units in range of the invasion hex. So battles like Norway, Guadalcanal, etc can still occur.

China has been a design problem in almost every PTO game I have ever played. Due to hindsight. Because the Japanese player KNOWS how weak the Allied forces are in the PTO, which they were not that sure of in RL, they can spend more resources in China than the Japanese really did. And still do well in the rest of the Pacific.

One way to counter this is for every city that the Japanese player takes that Japan did not take in RL, there is a MMP drain of X/turn to reflect the additional Garrison needs for moving deeper into China than historical. This drain could even decrease over time to reflect better control over the population as time went on under Japanese control.

Just some ideas that may be impossible to implement in the game, but would certainly make things a little more balanced in the PTO [:)]

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar
China has been a design problem in almost every PTO game I have ever played. Due to hindsight.

I think the real problem is how designers have chosen to model the massive Chinese armies. Most games reduce the huge armies to corp or even division equivalents. So China's historically huge 4-5 million strong army fights like there are only a quarter of those men on the field. A better solution would be to give Chinese units the defensive equivalent of 4-5 million men but sharply curtail its offensive punch due to how few large caliber support weapons and artillery tubes China had.

If you study the battles fought in the years leading up to 1941, Japan won most engagements for the first couple of years, but in the 39-41 period China had learned how to fight on the defense with what it had pretty well and actually won most engagements in those years. Even the massive battles fought around Changsha that saw over 500,000 participants and massive Japanese artillery support were Chinses victories.

But all of the victories were defensive victories, China still could not attack. But they had stalemated Japans offensives and that's why Japan was faced with either conceding defeat due to the embargos or widening the war to try and feed even more raw resources into the attempt to overcome the Chinese.

This game and most others make China far too weak on the defense. I'd up their defense stats or make their units 15 strength by default and reduce their offensive stats. Simulating their mass numbers and the difficulties Japan had in overcoming those numbers without also making them an offensive threat is what's needed.

In Russia their numbers are also lacking from historical numbers as well, I think they had something like 5-6 million men under arms compared to Germany's 3-4 (counting axis minors) when Barbarossa launched (by December Russia had grown to 6-8 million in the field even after HUGE losses), yet Germany has almost twice the number of units on the field as the Russians in most AAR's I've read. I'd give them a much larger number of starting corps, but cap their strength at 8 for 1941 and up it to 9 in 1942. 1943 would see them become normal units like any other powers units.

Jim

[firsteds]

This game and most others make China far too weak on the defense. I'd up their defense stats or make their units 15 strength by default and reduce their offensive stats. Simulating their mass numbers and the difficulties Japan had in overcoming those numbers without also making them an offensive threat is what's needed.

I am not sure it is so clear cut in WAW. When China loses a major city their troops 'reform', spawning at full strength (sometimes double strength) safely behind the lines. I think this replicates real life pretty well. No other nations have this bonus. I think the designers have done a pretty good job on balance and the result in China depends a lot on the experience of your opponent.

One small change I might support is letting China start with a research chit in Infantry Warfare Research. Most players buy this anyway (sacrificing something else) and China had been at war much longer than any of the other Allies, so they deserve to start with this chit. They are not starting from scratch like the other nations.

[DrZom]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

I'd up their defense stats or make their units 15 strength by default and reduce their offensive stats. Simulating their mass numbers and the difficulties Japan had in overcoming those numbers without also making them an offensive threat is what's needed.

Perhaps limit China to Infantry Weapons 1 and make the units larger?

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: firsteds

This game and most others make China far too weak on the defense. I'd up their defense stats or make their units 15 strength by default and reduce their offensive stats. Simulating their mass numbers and the difficulties Japan had in overcoming those numbers without also making them an offensive threat is what's needed.

I am not sure it is so clear cut in WAW. When China loses a major city their troops 'reform', spawning at full strength (sometimes double strength) safely behind the lines. I think this replicates real life pretty well. No other nations have this bonus. I think the designers have done a pretty good job on balance and the result in China depends a lot on the experience of your opponent.

One small change I might support is letting China start with a research chit in Infantry Warfare Research. Most players buy this anyway (sacrificing something else) and China had been at war much longer than any of the other Allies, so they deserve to start with this chit. They are not starting from scratch like the other nations.

This is exactly what WITPAE does...

[wobbleguts]

A bit confused.

My game is v 1.11.01, but this active thread is about v 1.05. Is it still relevant?

Happy to be flamed if there is an explanation.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

ORIGINAL: firsteds

One small change I might support is letting China start with a research chit in Infantry Warfare Research. Most players buy this anyway (sacrificing something else) and China had been at war much longer than any of the other Allies, so they deserve to start with this chit. They are not starting from scratch like the other nations.

I personally like this proposal. China is a bit too weak imo.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

ORIGINAL: firsteds

One small change I might support is letting China start with a research chit in Infantry Warfare Research. Most players buy this anyway (sacrificing something else) and China had been at war much longer than any of the other Allies, so they deserve to start with this chit. They are not starting from scratch like the other nations.

I personally like this proposal. China is a bit too weak imo.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5068673

Lol

[OldCrowBalthazor]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

ORIGINAL: firsteds

One small change I might support is letting China start with a research chit in Infantry Warfare Research. Most players buy this anyway (sacrificing something else) and China had been at war much longer than any of the other Allies, so they deserve to start with this chit. They are not starting from scratch like the other nations.

I personally like this proposal. China is a bit too weak imo.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5068673

Lol

That's no argument, Tanaka.
That's a SP anomaly with no data to support what the hell happened there....though I would like to see how it came about.

[DrZom]

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor


That's a SP anomaly with no data to support what the hell happened there....though I would like to see how it came about.

If it is an anomaly, I have seen it happen, too. I have a screen save from China driving the invaders into the sea, but it is too large to upload here. I can only tell you that it came about by patiently holding on and researching infantry techs in a SP game on Vet setting but computer bonuses at zero.

I did not continue the game once the invaders were driven out of China.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor



I personally like this proposal. China is a bit too weak imo.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5068673

Lol

That's no argument, Tanaka.
That's a SP anomaly with no data to support what the hell happened there....though I would like to see how it came about.

Oh I just thought it was funny [:D]

[OldCrowBalthazor]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

ORIGINAL: Tanaka




https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5068673

Lol

That's no argument, Tanaka.
That's a SP anomaly with no data to support what the hell happened there....though I would like to see how it came about.

Oh I just thought it was funny [:D]

oH..ok Tanaka. It was kinda funny.
This is funny too. [;)]