Game questions (Beginner mostly)

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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Ambassador
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by Ambassador »

ORIGINAL: Dili
played with the "Reliable USN Torpedoes" option turned OFF (more realism), and they were plain TERRIBLE with their torpedo attacks! Did not track exactly but out of perhaps 18 - 20 torpedoes dropped they did not manage one single hit on an IJN ship!

Reliable torpedoes: means that your torpedo fails to explode not that it not hit.

The fact that you did not hit any Japanese ship means that your carrier crew still not have much torpedo naval attack skills. You need to train them.
Best advice that could be given, regarding torpedo bombers efficiency.

Scrap that. Best advice that could be given for any type of plane efficiency, especially for the Allies at game start.
thephalanx1453
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by thephalanx1453 »

ORIGINAL: haegint

Seconday question is: What is considered the ideal altitude setting for torpedo bombers? In an older post from BBfanboy I found 1000 ft., but 100 intuitively seems also sensible to me. How would their mission effectiveness be influenced by the altitude? Less alt <-> more flak? Differences in the gain of Fatigue? Is it depending on aircraft model?

They drop down to 200ft to launch their torps no matter what altitude you set them to, so there's altitude has no direct impact on their attack effectiveness.
However, more alt = less flak when going in and out of an attack run, but more alt = more fatigue gained by pilots, which in turn impacts their effectiveness.
Also apparently if you set your bombers to the same/similar altitude as your escorting fighters, you get better chance at coordination.
For Coral Sea as Japan I set my all my Kates, Vals, and Zero escorts at 13000~15000ft.
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by GetAssista »

ORIGINAL: Dili
Reliable torpedoes: means that your torpedo fails to explode not that it not hit.

The fact that you did not hit any Japanese ship means that your carrier crew still not have much torpedo naval attack skills. You need to train them.
Depends on the ship you are aiming at too. Good luck hitting a fast and maneuverable destroyer with aerial torpedoes. Or some flak-heavy combat ship
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by Ambassador »

ORIGINAL: GetAssista
ORIGINAL: Dili
Reliable torpedoes: means that your torpedo fails to explode not that it not hit.

The fact that you did not hit any Japanese ship means that your carrier crew still not have much torpedo naval attack skills. You need to train them.
Depends on the ship you are aiming at too. Good luck hitting a fast and maneuverable destroyer with aerial torpedoes. Or some flak-heavy combat ship
If I’m not mistaken, only one destroyer (USS Jarvis ?) was sunk by an aerial torpedo, and even then only because her captain put her between the enemy planes and a cruiser. All others being sunk by bombs, mines, kamikazes, naval gunfire, or submarine and surface torpedoes.
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by Alfred »

ORIGINAL: thephalanx1453
ORIGINAL: haegint

Seconday question is: What is considered the ideal altitude setting for torpedo bombers? In an older post from BBfanboy I found 1000 ft., but 100 intuitively seems also sensible to me. How would their mission effectiveness be influenced by the altitude? Less alt <-> more flak? Differences in the gain of Fatigue? Is it depending on aircraft model?

They drop down to 200ft to launch their torps no matter what altitude you set them to, so there's altitude has no direct impact on their attack effectiveness.
However, more alt = less flak when going in and out of an attack run, but more alt = more fatigue gained by pilots, which in turn impacts their effectiveness.
Also apparently if you set your bombers to the same/similar altitude as your escorting fighters, you get better chance at coordination.
For Coral Sea as Japan I set my all my Kates, Vals, and Zero escorts at 13000~15000ft.

The high altitude pilot fatigue penalty only kicks in if aircraft is flown at >75% it's maximum altitude.

Alfred
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by RangerJoe »

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: thephalanx1453
ORIGINAL: haegint

Seconday question is: What is considered the ideal altitude setting for torpedo bombers? In an older post from BBfanboy I found 1000 ft., but 100 intuitively seems also sensible to me. How would their mission effectiveness be influenced by the altitude? Less alt <-> more flak? Differences in the gain of Fatigue? Is it depending on aircraft model?

They drop down to 200ft to launch their torps no matter what altitude you set them to, so there's altitude has no direct impact on their attack effectiveness.
However, more alt = less flak when going in and out of an attack run, but more alt = more fatigue gained by pilots, which in turn impacts their effectiveness.
Also apparently if you set your bombers to the same/similar altitude as your escorting fighters, you get better chance at coordination.
For Coral Sea as Japan I set my all my Kates, Vals, and Zero escorts at 13000~15000ft.

The high altitude pilot fatigue penalty only kicks in if aircraft is flown at >75% it's maximum altitude.

Alfred

That is good to know, thank you Alfred. Oxygen starvation . . .
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by RADM.Yamaguchi »

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: thephalanx1453
ORIGINAL: haegint

Seconday question is: What is considered the ideal altitude setting for torpedo bombers? In an older post from BBfanboy I found 1000 ft., but 100 intuitively seems also sensible to me. How would their mission effectiveness be influenced by the altitude? Less alt <-> more flak? Differences in the gain of Fatigue? Is it depending on aircraft model?

They drop down to 200ft to launch their torps no matter what altitude you set them to, so there's altitude has no direct impact on their attack effectiveness.
However, more alt = less flak when going in and out of an attack run, but more alt = more fatigue gained by pilots, which in turn impacts their effectiveness.
Also apparently if you set your bombers to the same/similar altitude as your escorting fighters, you get better chance at coordination.
For Coral Sea as Japan I set my all my Kates, Vals, and Zero escorts at 13000~15000ft.

The high altitude pilot fatigue penalty only kicks in if aircraft is flown at >75% it's maximum altitude.

Alfred
Yes, Alfred. Thank you for that. I couldn't find it but i had read that there was a penalty. Makes sense now because i run my ki-15 babs at 20k and it seems to work but i was worried about my Dinahs because i'm not making any more and ran them at 25k. both are with the 75% of max so it has been working for me without me knowing why.
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haegint
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by haegint »

Ok thanks very much for the many more useful answers, details and ideas, like eg. quick DD generally hard to hit with TB torps.

I went back to look at of the TB squads on LEX and YT in my Coral Sea game. It seems both pilot groups are quite good already with a "NavT" rating of 77 and 79. Not sure though if these pilots are preset entirely from the scenario files, or if there is a random element to it upon making a new game. In any case in my game they were fairly competent I would say? So I suspect they were (mainly) going after DD's with their attacks, and the results were all misses.

TBH I did not pay attention during battle, and from the old combat reports it's not clear which TB attacked which ship. Anyways it's something I will look out for in the future. It definitely seems very reasonable to consider size and speed of the target ships.

******

Alright, please a New chapter... Scenarios...

I feel like I have seen and learned enough for now from the Coral Sea scenario, and want to move to the next level. I definitely feel not ready to take on the full campaign, if nothing else because one should issue like 5'000 commands on Turn 1 (Kull's Allies spreadsheet)... But in some of the threads you gave me there are several interesing options with still smaller scens. I might go for the Aleutian's "1000 Miles". But I have a general question:

In the technical support section, I found a thread about Andy Mac's unofficial updates to the stock scenarios (and a couple of extra ones he made). This is the link:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3198064

Are these meant to be used with (beta) version 11.26b of the game? I understand they are more bug fixing and polish, not re-invention of the stock scens. So I think I should install them. But what's your opinion or experience with these?
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by RangerJoe »

My suggestion is that you try the Guadalcanal scenario first.

If your TBs use bombs down low, they have a better chance to hit the DDs.
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing! :o

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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by Ambassador »

ORIGINAL: haegint

Ok thanks very much for the many more useful answers, details and ideas, like eg. quick DD generally hard to hit with TB torps.

I went back to look at of the TB squads on LEX and YT in my Coral Sea game. It seems both pilot groups are quite good already with a "NavT" rating of 77 and 79. Not sure though if these pilots are preset entirely from the scenario files, or if there is a random element to it upon making a new game. In any case in my game they were fairly competent I would say? So I suspect they were (mainly) going after DD's with their attacks, and the results were all misses.

TBH I did not pay attention during battle, and from the old combat reports it's not clear which TB attacked which ship. Anyways it's something I will look out for in the future. It definitely seems very reasonable to consider size and speed of the target ships.
Don't check only the squadron's average, but also each pilot. You can never be sure which pilot flies, so if you have rookie pilots, they're at risks.

You can check in the editor, some of the squadrons have pre-set average XP, which will get somewhat randomized once the scenario starts.

Another word on the Devastator : they're awful. I'd advise you not to launch attacks with them, as they're slow (barely 200), fragile (less durability than a Val) and an anemic replacement rate. If you use them in the grand campaign in the first few months, you'll waste good pilots, as losses are inevitable, even against mere cargoes.

If you plan on using your CVs offensively during that time, 1) do it carefully, 2) drop the TB and add a fighter or DB squadron instead.
ORIGINAL: haegint

Alright, please a New chapter... Scenarios...

I feel like I have seen and learned enough for now from the Coral Sea scenario, and want to move to the next level. I definitely feel not ready to take on the full campaign, if nothing else because one should issue like 5'000 commands on Turn 1 (Kull's Allies spreadsheet)... But in some of the threads you gave me there are several interesing options with still smaller scens. I might go for the Aleutian's "1000 Miles". But I have a general question:
I'd advise the Guadalcanal scenario too. Coral Sea is ok to get the grasp on the game's basic mechanics for air missions and naval combat, but Guadalcanal will teach you to conserve your supply and your airframes, and how to do successful amphibious landings (and ground combat).

But then, don't hesitate to delve into the grand campaign. Don't try to get everything perfectly from the start, and don't try to follow Kull's spreadsheet at start. Start playing by only using ships, try to ambush the AI sometimes, see how the invasion of the SRA unfolds, but don't plan to play more than three months (or even one month at first). See what went wrong, and restart once you've learned from your initial mistakes.
And ask questions here while you do it (or do a google search beforehand). The point is : no scenario can really approach the complexity of the grand campaign.
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haegint
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by haegint »

Thanks Ambassador, I will remember what you say re. the Devastators.

Right... so it is 2:0 for Guadalcanal next. No problem with that... Any opinions on what's the deal with the Andy Mac updated scenarios?
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by RangerJoe »

I am playing 2v6. I think that he updated the AI but since you are new to the game, use the ones that you have for now.
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by Reg »

ORIGINAL: haegint

Any opinions on what's the deal with the Andy Mac updated scenarios?

No need to get too bent out of shape about the stock scenarios. They're not broken, it's just that Andy's are better.... [8D]

He has also added some new ones. [&o]


Cheers,
Reg.

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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by RangerJoe »

ORIGINAL: Reg

ORIGINAL: haegint

Any opinions on what's the deal with the Andy Mac updated scenarios?

No need to get too bent out of shape about the stock scenarios. They're not broken, it's just that Andy's are better.... [8D]

He has also added some new ones. [&o]

He changed and improved the AI for people who got used to what the AI did. Since you have not faced it yet, don't worry about them.
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing! :o

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haegint
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by haegint »

Thanks Reg, and good point about not knowing the scens at all... I only ever dabbled in Coral Sea so far.

I will play Andy Mac's own small scenario 19 "Battle of Burma" next. As per his recommendation (from some older thread) it is only ground forces and some air units, so I can learn about managing, well... ground forces I suppose!

Let's see how it goes...
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by rustysi »

Any opinions on what's the deal with the Andy Mac updated scenarios?

AFAIK Andy Mac's scenario update do fix some data base mistakes, but they don't change the code at all. So no 'bug' fixes. Most of that has been done over the years by the Dev's.

Also, I don't know anything about any new scenarios as I've never played them, but some of the changes made to the existing scenarios don't appeal to myself. For instance, bases added to the map. They only have one AI scrip, as opposed to the others which have a number of them, I forget the number offhand. They do add some 'goodies' for Japan, but that's really to aid the AI. As far as that goes, a human player really gets so much more than Japan was capable of doing IRL as it is.

As for the 'goodies', my take is its necessary for the 'original' Scenario 1 game. I recall Andy making a comment that there wasn't much to be done for the AI with the assets Japan has at the start.

So, for the most part my take is that these update are mostly beneficial to the AI player. Which I'm striving to stop being.[:D]

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haegint
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by haegint »

Alright, so I'm plodding along as Allies in the Road to Burma scen, and so far the Japs have not slaughtered me which I guess is some good. I have another question, about terrain.

Is there a way of getting info from in-game which hex is which terrain? I have not found anything and I doubt there is, but if you could confirm or tell me otherwise it would be great. I play with the ChemKid topographic map. I do see in the manual page 37 is about terrain type but some of the icons look very similar to one another, and obviously it is for the stock map only. Which I could revert to, of course.

But if an option were available to display terrain type in-game would be really good. Just clicking on a hex does not give the terrain. Thanks, much appreciated.
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by Alfred »

Read s.2.2 of the manual.

Alfred
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by GetAssista »

ORIGINAL: haegint
But if an option were available to display terrain type in-game would be really good. Just clicking on a hex does not give the terrain. Thanks, much appreciated.
The get an answer to your question please press "1"
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RE: Game questions (Beginner mostly)

Post by alimentary »

The get an answer to your question please press "1"
I was going to answer similarly, but felt that Alfred's response would produce a better result.
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