Axis Morale vs Allied Morale

[Tanaka]

Invade USA: Morale does not fall.
Invade UK: Morale does not fall.
Invade UK Commonwealths: Morale does not fall.

Invade Germany: Morale Falls.
Invade Italy: Morale Falls.

Fair? NOPE

Want to make the Pacific War mean something? If cities fall in UK Commonwealth/India/Australia/New Zealand/United States etc then morale should fall just as it does for Axis. Otherwise the Pacific War is just a backwater war and the only thing that matters is Russia.

[FOARP]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
the Pacific War is just a backwater war and the only thing that matters is Russia.

In short, this is WW2. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

One way to change, would just make a point system, per turn. Brought this up before.

1) Change NOTHING of the game
2) Change NOTHING of existing Victory conditions
3) Create a Point System to see how it works.

a) Every turn/month/whatever, there's a Tally made
b) Points are given for holding of specific location (Midway, Guadalcanal, Stalingrad, Whatever)
c) Points are given for killing specific enemy units: Big Red One, 4th Panzer, 101st Paratroops, Moscow Guards, Bismarck, Yamamoto, etc.
d) Points are given for specific actions: (U-boat raids on New York, Any rocket attack on London, Any Doolittle raid while Japs own certain Islands)

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

One way to change, would just make a point system, per turn. Brought this up before.

1) Change NOTHING of the game
2) Change NOTHING of existing Victory conditions
3) Create a Point System to see how it works.

a) Every turn/month/whatever, there's a Tally made
b) Points are given for holding of specific location (Midway, Guadalcanal, Stalingrad, Whatever)
c) Points are given for killing specific enemy units: Big Red One, 4th Panzer, 101st Paratroops, Moscow Guards, Bismarck, Yamamoto, etc.
d) Points are given for specific actions: (U-boat raids on New York, Any rocket attack on London, Any Doolittle raid while Japs own certain Islands)

Some very cool ideas here I like this. Something has to give actions meaning otherwise what is the point? In my current game as Axis I have invaded Australia, the United States, India, Russia, all as Japan and it does nothing to Allied morale. I have one or two cities invaded and it destroys all of my fighting spirit. Makes no sense...

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: FOARP

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
the Pacific War is just a backwater war and the only thing that matters is Russia.

In short, this is WW2. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Great discussion thanks!!

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

Agree 100% The Risk/Reward of Australia could use a tweak. I don't know the historical record of Aussies getting into the fight, but England rarely uses their forces. Well, they Ships 80% of the time head to Italy. The Aussie-HQ + Special Forces are expensive to move, the Brits have to use their cash to help save Russia instead.

[Elessar2]

I can't remember if that all is hard-coded or scriptable. Yes: I believe in the editor you can designate specific cities as morale centers.

[ThunderLizard11]

Australia is irrelevant ATM. I've had opponents invade twice and once successfully but it accomplished very little. I also think Allies should suffer morale dip if invasion of France fails and they are pushed back into the ocean.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2

Australia is irrelevant ATM. I've had opponents invade twice and once successfully but it accomplished very little. I also think Allies should suffer morale dip if invasion of France fails and they are pushed back into the ocean.

Yes there is no point in invading any allied countries at all. If you do they just get all these spammed new troops. No upside at all. Can anyone name anything that does give Allied morale dip other than sinking ships?

[ThunderLizard11]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2

Australia is irrelevant ATM. I've had opponents invade twice and once successfully but it accomplished very little. I also think Allies should suffer morale dip if invasion of France fails and they are pushed back into the ocean.

Yes there is no point in invading any allied countries at all. If you do they just get all these spammed new troops. No upside at all. Can anyone name anything that does give Allied morale dip other than sinking ships?

Other than a few like taking London and Wake that's correct.

[Aussiematto]

Am feeling this is a great thread and a great opportunity for new developments. If you also add in ways for countries to sandbag morale (thinking SC:WWI - use of MPPs) as well as more ways to lose morale? I also think that you could model morale losses this way - large loss upon occurence of truly major event (loss of Singapore). But, over time, there is recovery from that specific event (possibly randomised). That fits w historical pattern and is not unlike the "French morale improves as war goes on" event.

historical: when faced w impending invasion in Northern Australia, Aussie government plan was to abandon the north and fight from northern NSW on the so-called "Brisbane Line" (south of / anchored on Brisbane). This would have been a major embarrassment; the thought of it suggests government was shaken enough to contemplate major loss of land / people. Bombing of Darwin is another example. It did absolutely nothing militarily but rattled the bejesus out of Aussies. But, after a while, bombing of Darwin was a morale builder (bit like the Blitz).

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2

Australia is irrelevant ATM. I've had opponents invade twice and once successfully but it accomplished very little. I also think Allies should suffer morale dip if invasion of France fails and they are pushed back into the ocean.

Yes there is no point in invading any allied countries at all. If you do they just get all these spammed new troops. No upside at all. Can anyone name anything that does give Allied morale dip other than sinking ships?

Other than a few like taking London and Wake that's correct.

Ok so taking Wake causes a morale drop but taking Pearl Harbor, Alaska, Australia, and San Diego like I did in my MP game does nothing? SMH My opponent can literally ignore it and focus on Germany and Italy.

[BillRunacre]

There are some National Morale objectives on the map, e.g. if Hawaii falls then Japanese NM rises by 5,000 points and the US falls by 10,000, and if the Japanese seize Canberra then their NM rises by 2,500 points.

Also bear in mind that occupying the resources of an enemy Major will increase your NM every turn while also reducing that Major's by the same amount, in accordance with the NM value of that resource.

Whether this is the route to win the war is another matter, but it can have some impact.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

There are some National Morale objectives on the map, e.g. if Hawaii falls then Japanese NM rises by 5,000 points and the US falls by 10,000, and if the Japanese seize Canberra then their NM rises by 2,500 points.

Also bear in mind that occupying the resources of an enemy Major will increase your NM every turn while also reducing that Major's by the same amount, in accordance with the NM value of that resource.

Whether this is the route to win the war is another matter, but it can have some impact.

Thanks Bill good to know there is some point to these invasions I hope some more will be included in the future!

[Aussiematto]

Ahhh - this important point was not evident to me; thank you for the tip.

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

Also bear in mind that occupying the resources of an enemy Major will increase your NM every turn while also reducing that Major's by the same amount, in accordance with the NM value of that resource.

Does this suggest, therefore, that there is some value in letting Italy capture things? Or is that too risky in the long run?

[BillRunacre]

Maybe, but remember that it is only territory directly forming part of a Major's country that counts in this respect, e.g. the UK proper. Capturing territory belonging to a minor doesn't count, although it can bring MPP benefits.

[Aussiematto]

Gotcha - thanks!