MineSweeping TF

[WEXF]

I am a new player and I have run into something that is a puzzlement related to forming Minesweeping TF in SF, Seattle, LA and SD. I am playing against the AI and it is just the first turn after PH (Dec 8). In the rules it says in the table on Mines that DD and some other ships classes can perform Minesweeping and be part of MS/TF. In SF, LA, SD and Seattle I have DDs and other ships that should qualify but when I am on the screen that lists the TF that can be formed in those ports Minesweeping is not listed which I take as the computer not recognizing that there are qualified ships in the ports. I am not talking about Local Minesweeping TF-that works fine.
I checked the ports of Manila and Pearl Harbor where there are similar ships and both are OK and will allow the Minesweeping TF to form with the DD and others.
Any idea as to what is happening?
Fred

[RangerJoe]

I do believe that you need to have a dedicated mine sweeping vessel in the port in order to be able to select that type of mission.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

a destroyer is not a minesweeper, it acts as a minesweeper in an emergency, but it won't be an efficient one and might even hit a mine

it can be part of a minesweeper TF or a local minesweeper TF, as long as you also have a minesweeper

[WEXF]

I hear what you are saying but I am a bit confused. In Manila I have DD, PG, and AMs so it seems that with the AM (true Minesweepers) I can do any mix of MS TF. I can and that makes sense. However, I can also create in Manila a Minesweeping TF that only has DDs (no AMs). The table 6.6.3 that lists all the ships that can be used in MS TF and rule 6.6.2.1.1 says that MS/TF sweep the hex they are in and the 6 adjoining hexes. I have not seen anything in the rules that says that DDs are less efficient at M/S than AMs. Is there a MS number associated with each class of ship like there are AA and ASW? If there is where can I find the numbers?
Fred

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: WEXF

I hear what you are saying but I am a bit confused. In Manila I have DD, PG, and AMs so it seems that with the AM (true Minesweepers) I can do any mix of MS TF. I can and that makes sense. However, I can also create in Manila a Minesweeping TF that only has DDs (no AMs). The table 6.6.3 that lists all the ships that can be used in MS TF and rule 6.6.2.1.1 says that MS/TF sweep the hex they are in and the 6 adjoining hexes. I have not seen anything in the rules that says that DDs are less efficient at M/S than AMs. Is there a MS number associated with each class of ship like there are AA and ASW? If there is where can I find the numbers?
Fred

There are no visible numbers - the capability of the ships is "under the hood" such that a purpose-built vessel is always better at its task than one that has the capability but not the primary role. This is similar to air recon - purpose built recon aircraft can produce more detection points than a capable aircraft, even if the latter has a camera (like a PBY). The recon aircraft camera is just much better.

[WEXF]

I understand the difference in capabilities of different ships. I am only looking for the reason the MS/TF can't be formed in the 4 large ports.

[rustysi]

As long as there's a dedicated MS type vessel in the port a MSTF may be created. That doesn't mean a dedicated MS type vessel must be included in said MSTF.

[rustysi]

I am only looking for the reason the MS/TF can't be formed in the 4 large ports.

They don't contain a dedicated MS type ship.

[Alfred]

The Table 6.6.3 allows for misinterpretation.

1. The table lists the ship classes (but NB it omits the SC ship type) which can go into mine warfare task forces. It does not, however, differentiate between regular and auxiliary mine warfare ship types.

2. When attempting to create a Minesweeper TF, there must be at least one regular mine warfare ship type available for inclusion in the new TF. If only auxiliary mine warfare ship types are present, the option to create a Minesweeper TF is not presented to the player.

3. The game code gatekeeper is on the type of mine warfare task force made available, not the regular/auxiliary mine warfare ship type. Any regular or auxiliary mine warfare type ship listed in Table 6.6.3 can be selected to populate the particular applicable task force created. This code gatekeeper for mine warfare task forces is different to that of other types of task forces because they do not allow "auxiliary" type ships into their task forces.

Alfred

[WEXF]

OK-Thanks-I think I get it now. I hope this is correct:
[At a port, to form a MS/TF there must be a true Minesweeper present. If there is, then a MSTF can be formed but that TF does not have to contain the dedicated MS (an AM not just an AMc Local MS). It can contain other ships that are in the Table as capable of performing the process of MS.]

If the above is correct it would follow that if a DD is in a port with a MS and is put in a MS TF without the MS, the DD will be able to perform the process of sweeping for mines in a 7 hex region although probably not at the same efficiency as a dedicated MS.
I hope the above is correct.
Fred

[Trugrit]

ORIGINAL: WEXF

OK-Thanks-I think I get it now. I hope this is correct:
[At a port, to form a MS/TF there must be a true Minesweeper present. If there is, then a MSTF can be formed but that TF does not have to contain the dedicated MS (an AM not just an AMc Local MS). It can contain other ships that are in the Table as capable of performing the process of MS.]

If the above is correct it would follow that if a DD is in a port with a MS and is put in a MS TF without the MS, the DD will be able to perform the process of sweeping for mines in a 7 hex region although probably not at the same efficiency as a dedicated MS.
I hope the above is correct.
Fred

True, but you don't want to do this. The efficiency is very, very low as in the Example Below.
A Destroyer might clear 2 a day. If the Minefield is Dense like the one I've Shown (200 Mines)
It could take 6 months for a regular Destroyer to clear it.

There are more important things for Destroyers to do than this.

But the other thing is that a Destroyer is much more likely to hit a mine that a regular Minesweeper.
Did I say much more likely, yes I think I did.

[RangerJoe]

As Japanese, you can put Ansyu PBs in mine sweeping task forces and they can survive a mine hit. They are slow, but they will work. DDs may not survive a mine hit.

[Sardaukar]

Every ship can be minesweeper...once... [:D]

[Jorge_Stanbury]

both Allies and Japan start the war with plentiful minesweepers, destroyer minesweepers, local minesweepers, yard minesweepers

to the point that both Allies and Japan tend to use this excess capacity as convoy escorts, specially true for the fast cruising DMS

so, why not use them for their original intent instead of risking a more valuable ship like a destroyer??

[WEXF]

Thanks.
Another ? on Mines.
When a CM places a minefield does all of the mines that are carried have to be placed in one hex?
Fred

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: WEXF

Thanks.
Another ? on Mines.
When a CM places a minefield does all of the mines that are carried have to be placed in one hex?
Fred

Yes.

[WEXF]

Again Thanks:
Next ?:
If there are no more of a particular type of mine in the pool can a CM load a different kind of mine then what is specified on the ship's page?
What is the difference in color mean when it is in the weapon line of a CM? Some are green some are white.
This has been a big help-so thanks again.
Fred

[RangerJoe]

The mine layers can only load a certain type of mine. Check your production levels on your information "i" screen. Some of them only have a limited supply, some have limited production runs.

A suggestion, check you mine layers since when the mine supply runs out and no more are built then the mine layer may be converted to something else. But wait until the mine supply is gone before doing so otherwise you won't be able to use the mines. I do believe that one mine is laid by one US sub only so if you convert it, you won't be able to use the mines.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

As Allies, you will run out of your most used mines quickly

2 important ones to take into consideration:
- British and Dutch submarines mines; these will start with good inventories, so be sure to devote to minelaying the few British submarines and some of those Dutch ones that can take them

this at least until you deplete inventory

[WEXF]

Thanks for the tips on the mine inventory.
Does anyone have the answer to what the different colors mean on the mine loads (White vs Green)?
Fred