Portugal: help needed

[AlvaroSousa]

WP is a WW2 grand strategy game based on history. It is not a historical simulation.

As for invading Norway, Portugal, Sweden.... It is much harder than you think and it also gives the Germans plenty of resources they need.

Norway they get a free corps if Norway is invaded.
They get 15 MMs and a naval unit. This creates a massive change in the battle of the Atlantic as usually the Allies get these.
They get 100% of their production.
It is easier for Germany to reinforce Norway than the Allies.
With the new map the Allies can't even invade Oslo which is a supply source for Germany but not the Allies.

Sweden gets a corps at the iron ore mines if Norway is attacked
Germany now gets 50 resources from Sweden. And say they lose Narvik. They haven't lost anything. Fine they lose the route but Sweden still produces for themselves. Also now you gave Germany 220 points of land units, extra logistics, naval unit, and air unit.

Spain
Portugal sure the Allies can take it. If they DOW on Spain now they gave Germany 10 extra resources, 2 naval groups, 175 points in land units, air unit, and a very good terrain. But you gave me an idea and I will add mobilization of extra units if the Allies take Portugal.

On top of all this WP has a layer of critical thinking in the management of resources which takes many games to grab on to. They Allies can do well in Spain if they choose that route but I have already experienced a game where they went that route and got kicked off by the Axis in 1943. Or another route where they landed and got stuffed. They did move the line forward but it cost them so much they were left with no choice but to continue pushing through the mountain line at the Pyrenees.

This game has a lot of strategic planning involved. Games might get wild early on with inexperienced players doing crazy stuff and their counters or lack there of but when you have 2 experienced players going at it the game becomes more like poker and chess combined.

[ago1000]

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

Norway they get a free corps if Norway is invaded.
They get 15 MMs and a naval unit. This creates a massive change in the battle of the Atlantic as usually the Allies get these.
They get 100% of their production.

I see in the intro screen that they would get a free corp and their is a shift +15 towards Axis for Italy,....if Norway is invaded by the allies, but I don't see that they get 15MMs and a Naval Unit. Where is that info? Is it in the manual?

[malkarma]

Those MM and nval units are the starting ones of Norway. So if Allies invade Germany will get them, like the UK get the dutch ones whe we invade The Netherlands.

[Magpius]

If this game was a purely historical simulation... Germany never wins, all an axis player can do is what? change the date and time they lose?
I can watch a documentary for that. On repeat.

[Harrybanana]

My opinion is that the Western Allies would have invaded Portugal if they felt it was necessary to prosecute the War. The Allies did in fact invade Portuguese territory in December 41, namely the occupation of East Timor. They also had plans (Operation Alacrity) to occupy the Azores. The latter Operation was never carried out only because the Portuguese agreed to allow the British (and later the Americans) the use of bases there.

My first problem is that if the Allies had invaded Portugal there is no doubt that Spain would have immediately joined the Axis, or at a minimum, invited Axis units to enter Spain. Franco was not an idiot (very much the opposite actually); he would have known that the only reason the Allies would invade Portugal would be as a prelude to attacking Spain. Of course, the same can be said for Belgium if the Axis had invaded the Netherlands. So it is a little two faced to ask that Spain will join the Axis if Portugal is invaded by the Allies (or vice versa actually) without also asking for Belgium to join the Allies if the Axis invade the Netherlands. So I think this rule she just be left as it is, even if it is, IMHO, ahistorical.

The other problem I have is that it is relatively easy for the Allies to conquer Spain in 1 turn. Madrid with its 2 strength unit is a piece of cake for an armour unit coming from Portugal. Bilbao with its 2 strength defender can be taken out by invasion as can Barcelona with its 2 strength defender. I did this myself in a recent game (well actually I took out Barcelona with a unit moving overland from Southern France, but I could have invaded as well). So I am glad to hear that Alvaro will be making some changes to the Spanish setup.

[AlvaroSousa]

You need all the production locations to take them out.

[Nirosi]

I wonder if a compromise could be to make it slightly more difficult for the Allies to use Portugal? A small reduction of the port just South of Lisbon (from 9 to 6 for example) would mean the equivalent of 2 large corps less. Still feasible to mount a large scale operation, but at least a little more complicated. For each size port, it is 2 less divisions.... once a sweet spot of units is found/agreed by Alvaro, that port can be adjusted for balance if necessary?

This of course an be done also with the other adjustments proposed...

[malkarma]

The I think that we need to do something with Ireland. It´s freaking easy to invade it by the germans in order to take Belfast by land.


ps: The irony here is that I didn't needed the Invasion of Portugal and Spain. I virtually won the game in '40 summer in Greece (I stopped cold the A>xis there, including several corps destroyed); in '41 summer when I conquered Italian NA (the rest was conquered in '42 spring) and in '42 summer in the URSS (I managed to stop the axis several hexes away of Minsk and Kiev, desstroying 4 armour corps in the process). I could have waited 1 year to build up troops and do a '43 overlord, or I could do this and check what kind of damage can suffer the Axis there. At this point I´m testing things just in behalf of my curiosity.
Anyways I don't give a damn more about this issue.

[kennonlightfoot]

Norway they get a free corps if Norway is invaded.
They get 15 MMs and a naval unit. This creates a massive change in the battle of the Atlantic as usually the Allies get these.
They get 100% of their production.
It is easier for Germany to reinforce Norway than the Allies.
With the new map the Allies can't even invade Oslo which is a supply source for Germany but not the Allies.

I haven't checked this one from the Axis point of view, but from the Allied side the UK receives 48 Merchants if Germany invades Norway. Very nice addition to the UK's Battle of the Atlantic.

[ago1000]

I've been checking 1939 scenario: Sorry for all the posts
I just declared war on the first turn on everyone.

[ago1000]

page 2

[ago1000]

Allies get if Axis declares war

[ago1000]

page 2 of allies geets

[ago1000]

I believe it's the same for both sides. Also, I couldn't find this in the manual. But: p. 25 Manual - In surrender by conquest all the fleets go to the enemy side. Note: During a declaration of war, all fleets of a minor country go to the enemy side too. Learn something new about this game everyday.[:)]

[BrutalReaper]

The British actually invaded Iceland, and sunk part of the French fleet after the French surrendered.

[battlevonwar]

Allies considered invading Spain!

"At Casablanca the Allied military leaders were persuaded that Spain had turned awayfrom the Axis and that Germany no longer had the forces to invade it. Indeed, the Allies were prepared, atleast on a planning basis, to consider their own invasion of Spain in order to ensure access to theMediterranean."

(resource)https://1997-2001.state.gov/regions/eur ... _spain.pdf

What is fact now and fiction 70something years ago is strange. This is a simulator of what could be, want huge consequences for such an action or a huge possible accident from the situation go ahead!

Yugoslavia may have gone Axis and may gone Communist just like Bulgaria did(Finland too when all hope was lost) the instant it was feasible. The Balkans were a nightmare and alliances there/wars there shifted up until just a few years ago. Very easy for people to manipulate the place(extract bunches of Corps for use on the Eastern Front, not so easy) Only the Romanians, Hungarians, Slovaks and Finns were going to be at all helpful(and actually a hinderance) in that regard.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

You need all the production locations to take them out.

Madrid, Bilbao and Barcelona are the 3 production locations. I captured them all in one turn as stated above and Spain surrendered.

[CV60]

If this game was a purely historical simulation... Germany never wins, all an axis player can do is what? change the date and time they lose?
I can watch a documentary for that. On repeat.

I agree. Like AH's "3rd Reich", WARPLAN is a bit like a strategic sandbox, allowing players to engage in creative alternative strategies. That is why it is an interesting and fun game, with considerable replayability. If you want a simulation, the Grigsby games will be better. But if you want a challenging and fun game, WARPLAN is better.

[AlvaroSousa]

Did I mention the partisans on Spain?

[AlvaroSousa]

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

You need all the production locations to take them out.

Madrid, Bilbao and Barcelona are the 3 production locations. I captured them all in one turn as stated above and Spain surrendered.

I assume Madrid by Portugal, the other 2 by invasion? What year also?