Awakening the Giant - DesertWolf101 (A) vs szmike (J)

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Upgrading Units

I am now starting to consider some upgrades to my LCUs. In my first and only Allied campaign, I did not really give much thought to this process so to be honest I don't really know it well enough. I know the basics, but are there some key pitfalls or other issues that I need to keep in mind about this? If this topic has already been discussed in depth before I am also happy to go read on it if a link is provided. As always, thank you guys in advance!

Go to the Intel Report Troops/Equipment section to look at pools. Try turning off all the countries except one, and do that for several British/Commonwealth/Oz/ Indian/NZ countries. Notice how some devices are available to all of those countries? Decide early which will be your major fighting units among those LCUs and stockpile the devices for them. Turn off upgrades for all of the units and then individually turn on upgrades and release the stockpile. Once that unit has filled its slots for available devices, turn off upgrades and open the taps to another unit.

Some things like Support Squads and Motorized Support are used by all nationalities. Be careful about letting too many units draw at the same time - you end up with very slow completion of their TOE and may have to send them to battle significantly weakened. E.G. I was shoving millions of supply into China so I thought there was no harm in letting all the Chinese units take upgrades and replacements. I ran out of Support squads in short order! I turned off the Chinese unit draw but I still have not been able to fill out support on much better units. I also had Indian units take good British AA guns ahead of arriving British brigades and divisions.

In short - pick your units for priority upgrade and filling out, and manipulate the taps to ensure they get first dibs. As units finish filling out and upgrading, turn on an equal number of new units to be next.

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Upgrading Units

I am now starting to consider some upgrades to my LCUs. In my first and only Allied campaign, I did not really give much thought to this process so to be honest I don't really know it well enough. I know the basics, but are there some key pitfalls or other issues that I need to keep in mind about this? If this topic has already been discussed in depth before I am also happy to go read on it if a link is provided. As always, thank you guys in advance!

Go to the Intel Report Troops/Equipment section to look at pools. Try turning off all the countries except one, and do that for several British/Commonwealth/Oz/ Indian/NZ countries. Notice how some devices are available to all of those countries? Decide early which will be your major fighting units among those LCUs and stockpile the devices for them. Turn off upgrades for all of the units and then individually turn on upgrades and release the stockpile. Once that unit has filled its slots for available devices, turn off upgrades and open the taps to another unit.

Some things like Support Squads and Motorized Support are used by all nationalities. Be careful about letting too many units draw at the same time - you end up with very slow completion of their TOE and may have to send them to battle significantly weakened. E.G. I was shoving millions of supply into China so I thought there was no harm in letting all the Chinese units take upgrades and replacements. I ran out of Support squads in short order! I turned off the Chinese unit draw but I still have not been able to fill out support on much better units. I also had Indian units take good British AA guns ahead of arriving British brigades and divisions.

In short - pick your units for priority upgrade and filling out, and manipulate the taps to ensure they get first dibs. As units finish filling out and upgrading, turn on an equal number of new units to be next.

Thank you, this is very helpful! When thinking about items to stockpile, one thing that I am confused about is with regards to devices that are not produced anymore. Let's say there is an item X that is produced until February 1942 at 20 devices per month, and item X is listed as upgrading to item Y. Does that production line for X just disappear once February 1942 ends, or does it start producing item Y, or something else? Furthermore, I imagine that devices X already produced slowly convert to devices Y - is that correct?

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Upgrading Units

I am now starting to consider some upgrades to my LCUs. In my first and only Allied campaign, I did not really give much thought to this process so to be honest I don't really know it well enough. I know the basics, but are there some key pitfalls or other issues that I need to keep in mind about this? If this topic has already been discussed in depth before I am also happy to go read on it if a link is provided. As always, thank you guys in advance!

Go to the Intel Report Troops/Equipment section to look at pools. Try turning off all the countries except one, and do that for several British/Commonwealth/Oz/ Indian/NZ countries. Notice how some devices are available to all of those countries? Decide early which will be your major fighting units among those LCUs and stockpile the devices for them. Turn off upgrades for all of the units and then individually turn on upgrades and release the stockpile. Once that unit has filled its slots for available devices, turn off upgrades and open the taps to another unit.

Some things like Support Squads and Motorized Support are used by all nationalities. Be careful about letting too many units draw at the same time - you end up with very slow completion of their TOE and may have to send them to battle significantly weakened. E.G. I was shoving millions of supply into China so I thought there was no harm in letting all the Chinese units take upgrades and replacements. I ran out of Support squads in short order! I turned off the Chinese unit draw but I still have not been able to fill out support on much better units. I also had Indian units take good British AA guns ahead of arriving British brigades and divisions.

In short - pick your units for priority upgrade and filling out, and manipulate the taps to ensure they get first dibs. As units finish filling out and upgrading, turn on an equal number of new units to be next.

Thank you, this is very helpful! When thinking about items to stockpile, one thing that I am confused about is with regards to devices that are not produced anymore. Let's say there is an item X that is produced until February 1942 at 20 devices per month, and item X is listed as upgrading to item Y. Does that production line for X just disappear once February 1942 ends, or does it start producing item Y, or something else? Furthermore, I imagine that devices X already produced slowly convert to devices Y - is that correct?

Ah no, not correct.[:)]

For land device upgrades see my posts and provided links in this thread.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... e&#3605051

Production of Allied land devices is handled differently from that of aircraft. The core difference stems from land devices not being produced in factories (whether on map or "off map"). Accordingly a production line producing device "x" is never retooled to produce device "y". More importantly, as the production line is not located in a "factory", there is no player option to prevent retooling of "x" to "y" with the intention of maintaining "x" in production.

The net result is if device "x" has a set production run of 1 Jan 1942 to 30 June 1942 at a monthly rate of 30 units, and device "y" has a set production run of 1 July 1942 to 31 December 1942 at a monthly rate of 40 units, the last production day of device "x" is 30 June 1942 and device "y" starts production on 1 July at a monthly rate of 40 units.

Superseded Allied devices in the pools are not upgraded to the new, upgraded standard. The only exception is human (aka infantry type) represented devices. There is a considerable time delay before old superseded infantry devices in the pools are upgraded to the current version.

Superseded Japanese land devices and aircraft in the pools are handled differently.

Alfred

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy



Go to the Intel Report Troops/Equipment section to look at pools. Try turning off all the countries except one, and do that for several British/Commonwealth/Oz/ Indian/NZ countries. Notice how some devices are available to all of those countries? Decide early which will be your major fighting units among those LCUs and stockpile the devices for them. Turn off upgrades for all of the units and then individually turn on upgrades and release the stockpile. Once that unit has filled its slots for available devices, turn off upgrades and open the taps to another unit.

Some things like Support Squads and Motorized Support are used by all nationalities. Be careful about letting too many units draw at the same time - you end up with very slow completion of their TOE and may have to send them to battle significantly weakened. E.G. I was shoving millions of supply into China so I thought there was no harm in letting all the Chinese units take upgrades and replacements. I ran out of Support squads in short order! I turned off the Chinese unit draw but I still have not been able to fill out support on much better units. I also had Indian units take good British AA guns ahead of arriving British brigades and divisions.

In short - pick your units for priority upgrade and filling out, and manipulate the taps to ensure they get first dibs. As units finish filling out and upgrading, turn on an equal number of new units to be next.

Thank you, this is very helpful! When thinking about items to stockpile, one thing that I am confused about is with regards to devices that are not produced anymore. Let's say there is an item X that is produced until February 1942 at 20 devices per month, and item X is listed as upgrading to item Y. Does that production line for X just disappear once February 1942 ends, or does it start producing item Y, or something else? Furthermore, I imagine that devices X already produced slowly convert to devices Y - is that correct?

Ah no, not correct.[:)]

For land device upgrades see my posts and provided links in this thread.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... ade�

Production of Allied land devices is handled differently from that of aircraft. The core difference stems from land devices not being produced in factories (whether on map or "off map"). Accordingly a production line producing device "x" is never retooled to produce device "y". More importantly, as the production line is not located in a "factory", there is no player option to prevent retooling of "x" to "y" with the intention of maintaining "x" in production.

The net result is if device "x" has a set production run of 1 Jan 1942 to 30 June 1942 at a monthly rate of 30 units, and device "y" has a set production run of 1 July 1942 to 31 December 1942 at a monthly rate of 40 units, the last production day of device "x" is 30 June 1942 and device "y" starts production on 1 July at a monthly rate of 40 units.

Superseded Allied devices in the pools are not upgraded to the new, upgraded standard. The only exception is human (aka infantry type) represented devices. There is a considerable time delay before old superseded infantry devices in the pools are upgraded to the current version.

Superseded Japanese land devices and aircraft in the pools are handled differently.

Alfred

Exactly the information I needed, thanks Alfred! From this, I take it that I should be even more cautious when upgrading units as I could end up with a large inventory of superseded but still useful devices in my stockpile, as to my knowledge LCUs can not downgrade but only upgrade.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101


... I take it that I should be even more cautious when upgrading units as I could end up with a large inventory of superseded but still useful devices in my stockpile, as to my knowledge LCUs can not downgrade but only upgrade.

Correct.

Be particularly careful with regard to these devices which when superseded still remain useful:

AFV

Matilda II
General Lee
M3 Lee
Valentine III

Flak

3"/20cwt AA
3in M3 AA
90mm M1A1

Coastal Defence

6"Mk V/VII


All the above become superseded by devices which are either a marginal improvement or merely increase the already noticeable delta advantage already possessed by the superseded device over the enemy.


You will end up with very large pools of the following superseded artillery tubes. Upgrading to the newer tubes is usually advantageous in terms of firepower and range but if the units with the superseded devices are only up against category 2 or category 3 enemy units, the superseded devices will still provide a solid performance. However, up against category 1 enemy units, upgrading early is probably best.

2 pdr AT Gun
3" Mortar
18 Pounder Gun
37mm M3 AT Gun
75mm Field Gun


Alfred

[DesertWolf101]

Good to know, will keep a close eye on those devices then [:)]

[DesertWolf101]

December 24, 1941

Malaya

A massive brawl developed over Singapore this turn as 49 Buffalos tangled with 73 sweeping Oscars (in two waves). The Buffalos got the worst of it losing 20 again with 3 pilots killed this time. About half a dozen Oscars were shot down in response.

China

I snuck in a squadron of P-40E fighters to Chuhsien to deal with the increased Japanese air bombing in the area. The fighters first met 29 Lily bombers escorted by 8 Nates and proceeded to knock out the Nates and tear into the Lilys shooting down a dozen of them. A second wave of 25 Nell bombers came over next but unfortunately no air battle developed despite the CAP being only a thousand feet above the bombers. Finally, 6 lagging Nells came in next and were all shot down. I’m pleased with the ambush but can’t help but feel like I missed out on some more kills here. Either way, now I have my first Allied aces of the war, one with 5 kills and the other with 6.

Japanese forces seize an already abandoned Nanyang.

New Guinea

3 Dutch bombers were shot down by Japanese Zeros from a light carrier as they attempted to harass the invasion fleet off Sorong, which was lost to the Empire this turn.

[DesertWolf101]

December 25, 1941

Solomon Islands

The KB strikes Buin where I had hidden away a few cruisers to see if I could get at a couple of Japanese convoys when they inevitably come to claim more territory for the Emperor. Luckily for me the damage is not as bad as it could have been. Light cruiser Perth is hard hit and the heavy cruiser Canberra moderately so, two other light cruisers are only lightly damaged. Now to see if I can make it out the next turn.

I have to hand it to Mike, he made very good use of Japanese intel. He told me he got some signals intelligence in the area and connected the dots. Well played!

Borneo

After being grounded by weather during the last turn, the heavy bombers have a good run over Miri today, getting 27 total oil hits through the day.

Philippines

The Japanese 65th Brigade and 144th Infantry Regiment launch an attack against Cagayan in Mindanao but the defenders hold for now.

[DesertWolf101]

Allied Signals Intelligence

Speaking of Sigint, I was wondering about some aspects of Allied intelligence in the game. Judging from some of the reports I get, I am fairly certain that at least some of the sigint the Allied player receives is inaccurate (radio intelligence near Diego Garcia on the first day, CM picked up in Karachi, call sign for a converted vessel in the first few days that requires more than a few days to convert, etc.). I wonder if the veracity of the intel improves on average over time or if it stays generally at the same level of reliability? Furthermore, are there some types of Sigint reports that are more likely to be inaccurate relative to others? I'm curious what others have experienced with this.

[BBfanboy]

SigInt does improve over time as the Allies get better equipment and their people get better trained and experienced.
Your Patrol aircraft will increase the amount of SigInt you get because they have the equipment and are flying closer to the enemy. The better the pilot experience, the more accurate the info from this SigInt, I think.

If you are getting reports from the middle of the ocean where you have no assets nearby, that is a land station plotting a direction and hopefully getting another station to provide a cross bearing. Atmospheric conditions can play a part in how accurate those are, and if it is a sub transiting to somewhere, you are not going to find it by sending a ship or aircraft to the reported hex.

As you have seen, a lot of the info is mis-plotted or misinterpreted, sometimes showing enemy where you are sure there is none (like the middle of the USA).
witpqs has a utility called Intel Monkey that can scan your archived turn files for SigInt hits and assemble them together so you can see more pieces of the same puzzle in one place. Search the forum for Intel Monkey info.

Otherwise, you can jot down interesting info like units prepping for one of your bases and then later those same units loading on transports. For signals near one of my bases that could be anything, I look in the Ops report for any search sightings around the same hex to see if there is anything to corroborate the report. I don't chase an uncorroborated report unless I have something in the area that can easily search the hex. If I do suspect a sub, I check the routing of convoys and waypoint them away from that area.

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

SigInt does improve over time as the Allies get better equipment and their people get better trained and experienced.
Your Patrol aircraft will increase the amount of SigInt you get because they have the equipment and are flying closer to the enemy. The better the pilot experience, the more accurate the info from this SigInt, I think.

If you are getting reports from the middle of the ocean where you have no assets nearby, that is a land station plotting a direction and hopefully getting another station to provide a cross bearing. Atmospheric conditions can play a part in how accurate those are, and if it is a sub transiting to somewhere, you are not going to find it by sending a ship or aircraft to the reported hex.

As you have seen, a lot of the info is mis-plotted or misinterpreted, sometimes showing enemy where you are sure there is none (like the middle of the USA).
witpqs has a utility called Intel Monkey that can scan your archived turn files for SigInt hits and assemble them together so you can see more pieces of the same puzzle in one place. Search the forum for Intel Monkey info.

Otherwise, you can jot down interesting info like units prepping for one of your bases and then later those same units loading on transports. For signals near one of my bases that could be anything, I look in the Ops report for any search sightings around the same hex to see if there is anything to corroborate the report. I don't chase an uncorroborated report unless I have something in the area that can easily search the hex. If I do suspect a sub, I check the routing of convoys and waypoint them away from that area.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I am constantly amazed at how deep this game is - did not realize so many factors affected the development of Sigint. I have never used Intel Monkey or Tracker or such tools. Not that I have anything against them or their use, I am sure my life would be easier if I did. I just feel comfortable enough with the game as it is.

[DesertWolf101]

December 26, 1941

Malaya

First significant air raid on Singapore in a while by the Japanese. I lost 6 aircraft on the ground. My flak definitely seemed to underperform this turn but the Japanese did come at 12,000 feet so they avoided the Bofors.

Philippines

Two heavy cruisers, a light cruiser, and escorting destroyers softened up the Filippino defenders of Cagayan. I am considering pulling back from Cagayan into the mountains to avoid shelling from the sea.

Borneo

B-17s struck Miri once more but the result was decidedly subpar, likely due to severe storms over the target. Only 6 oil hits were registered this turn.

New Britain

Vindicator dive bombers sortied out of Rabaul and sank an AKL docked in Manus.

Solomons

All the cruisers slipped away from the danger zone in the Solomons but I fear Perth is done for. Fires in the high 80s and system damage is high too. She will likely go down next turn.

Gilbert Islands

Japanese troops land and take Tarawa.

[BBfanboy]

Six oil hits is 6000 supply or more that he has to expend repairing the disabled pumps. Every bit of supply cost is a big issue for the Japanese. [:)]

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Six oil hits is 6000 supply or more that he has to expend repairing the disabled pumps. Every bit of supply cost is a big issue for the Japanese. [:)]

Yup, in addition to the oil not produced in the meantime while the oil wells are disabled.

I am indeed quite happy with every oil hit, it's just that in comparison to some previous turns where I was getting almost 30 oil hits per day today was not as good [:)]

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Six oil hits is 6000 supply or more that he has to expend repairing the disabled pumps. Every bit of supply cost is a big issue for the Japanese. [:)]

Yup, in addition to the oil not produced in the meantime while the oil wells are disabled.

I am indeed quite happy with every oil hit, it's just that in comparison to some previous turns where I was getting almost 30 oil hits per day today was not as good [:)]

How many are working and how many are there? I don't know if the game models this but you may be hitting damaged oil production but that is not shown as a "hit."

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Six oil hits is 6000 supply or more that he has to expend repairing the disabled pumps. Every bit of supply cost is a big issue for the Japanese. [:)]

Yup, in addition to the oil not produced in the meantime while the oil wells are disabled.

I am indeed quite happy with every oil hit, it's just that in comparison to some previous turns where I was getting almost 30 oil hits per day today was not as good [:)]

How many are working and ho many are there? I don't know if the game models this but you may be hitting damaged oil production but that is not shown as a "hit."

When Mike captured Miri there were 150 working oil wells (in addition to the 150 that already start damaged since December 7). As far as I can ascertain based on the recon flights over Miri, I have damaged about 75 further oil wells, leaving 75 oil wells still intact. Brunei was also hard hit initially by my bombers, leaving it with just a couple of oil wells still intact.

[RangerJoe]

So basically, if the damaged oil wells are factored in the targeting with an equal chance of a hit, only 25% of the oil wells would register a hit in the report while hitting the damaged ones would not show up as a hit.

[DesertWolf101]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

So basically, if the damaged oil wells are factored in the targeting with an equal chance of a hit, only 25% of the oil wells would register a hit in the report while hitting the damaged ones would not show up as a hit.

Ah interesting - didn't realize that's how it might work. Thanks for that.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

So basically, if the damaged oil wells are factored in the targeting with an equal chance of a hit, only 25% of the oil wells would register a hit in the report while hitting the damaged ones would not show up as a hit.

Ah interesting - didn't realize that's how it might work. Thanks for that.

I am not stating that it works that way but it does explain diminishing returns. Maybe someone like Alfred who was involved in the discussions or remembers them can chime in on that.

[DesertWolf101]

December 27, 1941

Malaya

15 Betty bombers came in during the night to harass the airfield at Singapore but only managed one runaway hit given limited visibility, high altitude, and the weather.

During the day, 17 Sally bombers escorted by 24 Oscars fly in for a strike, but are met with 38 Buffalo fighters who successfully push their way through the Oscars and tear through the bombers. Unfortunately, although far less well escorted with only 6 Oscars, the next wave of 23 Sallys suffers only half a dozen or so lost bombers as the 32 Buffalos that were still there to meet them do not press their attack.

All in all, I lose a Buffalo in the air and one on the ground but shoot down almost 20 Sally bombers and about 8 Oscars. The first Australian ace emerges from this battle as well.

Borneo

Another subpar day over Miri. Despite the large numbers of bombers that fly, only 2 oil hits are scored.

Philippines

A couple of Japanese destroyers maintain the pressure on the defenders at Cagayan with a bombardment. This is followed by a successful Japanese attack that takes the base and forces the 101st PA Infantry Division to surrender.

China

Japanese bombing raids in China are much harder to interdict now as they are both heavily escorted and strike at the margins where I don’t have a good airfield presence.