Hmmm...Where did everybody go???

[RangerJoe]

There was in individual in jail/prison on death row in Lousy-ana. He was incarcerated for 25 years. One month before his execution date, he was released. The prosecutor withheld evidence that he was 100 miles away at the time the crimes were committed. That prosecutor got off scot free.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: fcooke

justice system failing - certainly agreed. Letting your cronies out -nah.

The normal system for considering pardons includes a thorough vetting by the Justice Department to show where the system failed and resulted in a bad conviction. Normally this would involve new evidence or evidence of bias by the system during the prosecution of the case. In no way is a crony supposed to be eligible for a pardon, but because it is an unconstrained power it is too tempting for politicians to use it that way. The pardon system should be codified in law, not an undefined whim of the office-holder.

[fcooke]

full agreement

[Orm]

Letting your cronies out -nah.

Is that a common thing?

Don't think I've heard any example of that in Sweden.

Please, no specific examples that may turn this into a political thingie.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


... The pardon system should be codified in law, not an undefined whim of the office-holder...

The concept of pardoning by the Head of State is deliberately a separate concept from that of a jurisdictions codification of a "pardon".

Jurisdictions already have "codified" processes by which a previous judgement can be quashed or set aside (which is not the same as being quashed). Essentially a legal code provides a "codified" (if we also include legal precedent to the the legal code) remedy to correct, based on the merits of the matter, an earlier wrong.

A pardon is always a discretionary matter which is not dependent on the merits of the case. It is a gift.

Alfred

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Letting your cronies out -nah.

Is that a common thing?

Don't think I've heard any example of that in Sweden.

Please, no specific examples that may turn this into a political thingie.

In the USA, definitely not rare in the final days of a President holding office. Some Presidents much more so than others.

Alfred

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
The pardon system should be codified in law, not an undefined whim of the office-holder.

You do it your way in your country as you see fit. We'll do the same here as we see fit. And please keep your political imperatives out of this thread.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
The pardon system should be codified in law, not an undefined whim of the office-holder.

You do it your way in your country as you see fit. We'll do the same here as we see fit. And please keep your political imperatives out of this thread.

+1

[RADM.Yamaguchi]

Chickenboy - Do you ever count your chickens before they hatch?

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: RADM.Yamaguchi

Chickenboy - Do you ever count your chickens before they hatch?

Umm...no. That would be something you could ask of Chickengirl, thank you very much.

ETA: Sorry for the perfunctory response. Come to think of it, I have counted many many many chickens before they've hatched. Hundreds of thousands. But they weren't mine though.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: RADM.Yamaguchi

Chickenboy - Do you ever count your chickens before they hatch?

Umm...no. That would be something you could ask of Chickengirl, thank you very much.

ETA: Sorry for the perfunctory response. Come to think of it, I have counted many many many chickens before they've hatched. Hundreds of thousands. But they weren't mine though.

So you're the opposite of that bird that lays its egg in other bird's nests?

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
The pardon system should be codified in law, not an undefined whim of the office-holder.

You do it your way in your country as you see fit. We'll do the same here as we see fit. And please keep your political imperatives out of this thread.

I fail to see how my opinion is any more political than yours. I said nothing about which countries have questionable pardons, and I am trying to figure out a rationale for having extra-justice system pardons. So far I think they are unjust, because they allow chargeable behaviour to go without repercussions. So, again, without reference to any country, party or situation, I just don't understand support for bad behaviour.

Clemency is a different thing, in that a punishment has already been meted out and is just being shortened for defendable reasons. That I can get behind.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
The pardon system should be codified in law, not an undefined whim of the office-holder.

You do it your way in your country as you see fit. We'll do the same here as we see fit. And please keep your political imperatives out of this thread.

I fail to see how my opinion is any more political than yours. I said nothing about which countries have questionable pardons, and I am trying to figure out a rationale for having extra-justice system pardons. So far I think they are unjust, because they allow chargeable behaviour to go without repercussions. So, again, without reference to any country, party or situation, I just don't understand support for bad behaviour.

Clemency is a different thing, in that a punishment has already been meted out and is just being shortened for defendable reasons. That I can get behind.

You stated that something should be codified in law, which means that it is legislated by a representative body and approved by an executive or the legislative body over rides an executive veto. That system is political.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy




You do it your way in your country as you see fit. We'll do the same here as we see fit. And please keep your political imperatives out of this thread.

I fail to see how my opinion is any more political than yours. I said nothing about which countries have questionable pardons, and I am trying to figure out a rationale for having extra-justice system pardons. So far I think they are unjust, because they allow chargeable behaviour to go without repercussions. So, again, without reference to any country, party or situation, I just don't understand support for bad behaviour.

Clemency is a different thing, in that a punishment has already been meted out and is just being shortened for defendable reasons. That I can get behind.

You stated that something should be codified in law, which means that it is legislated by a representative body and approved by an executive or the legislative body over rides an executive veto. That system is political.

Agreed. An entirely understandable progression of process. That does not mean that bad legislative decisions are impossible, and those may have to be amended or repealed, but the process will mostly get good deliberation and decisions. And some laws just become outdated and are no longer necessary. There is always maintenance work in any set of laws.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy



I fail to see how my opinion is any more political than yours. I said nothing about which countries have questionable pardons, and I am trying to figure out a rationale for having extra-justice system pardons. So far I think they are unjust, because they allow chargeable behaviour to go without repercussions. So, again, without reference to any country, party or situation, I just don't understand support for bad behaviour.

Clemency is a different thing, in that a punishment has already been meted out and is just being shortened for defendable reasons. That I can get behind.

You stated that something should be codified in law, which means that it is legislated by a representative body and approved by an executive or the legislative body over rides an executive veto. That system is political.

Agreed. An entirely understandable progression of process. That does not mean that bad legislative decisions are impossible, and those may have to be amended or repealed, but the process will mostly get good deliberation and decisions. And some laws just become outdated and are no longer necessary. There is always maintenance work in any set of laws.

But those choices should not be discussed here.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe




You stated that something should be codified in law, which means that it is legislated by a representative body and approved by an executive or the legislative body over rides an executive veto. That system is political.

Agreed. An entirely understandable progression of process. That does not mean that bad legislative decisions are impossible, and those may have to be amended or repealed, but the process will mostly get good deliberation and decisions. And some laws just become outdated and are no longer necessary. There is always maintenance work in any set of laws.

But those choices should not be discussed here.

Also agreed. I didn't bring up the subject of pardons and never intended to post this much on the subject. I think Orm was just wondering about the process. I think enough has been posted.

[DD696]

Hey fcooke, a bit late at the answer. My father served on the USS English, DD696, for her entire WWII tour. I decided many years ago it would be appropriate to use the nomenclature of his ship as my "name" here.

Edit: Looks like Nomad beat me to the answer. Should have read a bit more before the topic turned to mush/

[RevRick]

Well, from a personal perspective - I'm climbing toward 72 - on Aug. 6 (rather interesting date for my Mother to go into labor!)
My gaming buddy and I began with War in the Pacific as a paper game we had to spread out on a huge table with countless little punch out cardboard chips to stack. There were boxes for TF's [try stacking about 17-20 little bits of cardboard in a pile!] and we had a 'Hand of God' or 'Paw of Cat' rule which could result in some pieces being teleported across the Pacific Ocean occasionally. I finally found a home with a room we could set up as our War Room!
Then, my gaming buddy began to invest in increasingly complicated computers (DOS!!?) with the amazing amount of 512-1024 Kbytes, and found a version for that. That has been over 40 years, and we haven't finished a campaign yet [real life can be a Real B**** sometimes!]
Then I wound up in another job and we are about 300+ miles apart. What both of us old phartes can do sometime is call each other and plan at least one last trip to a ship - USS Missouri sounds good to me, but Mama hasn't said anything which is NOT a good sign.
If you're under 50, ENJOY IT! TAKE LIFE IN BIG BITES!

K

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: RevRick

Well, from a personal perspective - I'm climbing toward 72 - on Aug. 6 (rather interesting date for my Mother to go into labor!)
My gaming buddy and I began with War in the Pacific as a paper game we had to spread out on a huge table with countless little punch out cardboard chips to stack. There were boxes for TF's [try stacking about 17-20 little bits of cardboard in a pile!] and we had a 'Hand of God' or 'Paw of Cat' rule which could result in some pieces being teleported across the Pacific Ocean occasionally. I finally found a home with a room we could set up as our War Room!
Then, my gaming buddy began to invest in increasingly complicated computers (DOS!!?) with the amazing amount of 512-1024 Kbytes, and found a version for that. That has been over 40 years, and we haven't finished a campaign yet [real life can be a Real B**** sometimes!]
Then I wound up in another job and we are about 300+ miles apart. What both of us old phartes can do sometime is call each other and plan at least one last trip to a ship - USS Missouri sounds good to me, but Mama hasn't said anything which is NOT a good sign.
If you're under 50, ENJOY IT! TAKE LIFE IN BIG BITES!

K

Tell Mama that you really need to be there on a certain date and time which is Tokyo time:

Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz boarded shortly after 0800, and General of the Army Douglas MacArthur, the Supreme Commander for the Allies, came on board at 0843. The Japanese representatives, headed by Foreign Minister Mamoru Shigemitsu, arrived at 0856. At 0902, General MacArthur stepped before a battery of microphones and opened the 23-minute surrender ceremony to the waiting world by stating,[19] "It is my earnest hope—indeed the hope of all mankind—that from this solemn occasion a better world shall emerge out of the blood and carnage of the past, a world founded upon faith and understanding, a world dedicated to the dignity of man and the fulfillment of his most cherished wish for freedom, tolerance, and justice."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Misso ... _Surrender

The Japanese surrender on board the U.S.S. Missouri in Tokyo Bay on September 2, 1945

https://americanhistory.si.edu/collecti ... ah_1303405

[fcooke]

DD - that is cool. As for the paper WITP - that thing was a counter monster. And the cat always won. While I was away at college my Mom decided to do some housecleaning. About 30 models and 20ish mostly Avalon Hill games went the way of the Dodo.....I was not a happy camper.....

I haven't been to Pearl in 20 odd years...I would like to get back - I have never visited an Iowa class BB.