Free French factory

[craigbear]

Free French have selected Belgian Congo as their new home country. Is there any reason they cannot build a factory there? Just checking before I give it a try inmy solo game.

[Joseignacio]

I don't think there is any. I never did it but it was commented as a possibility and everyone agreed it was possible, in our games.

from WIF RAW:

"22.2 Factory destruction & construction (option 30)
Construction
You can build a maximum of 1 new factory a turn for each major power. They cost 8 build points each and take 4 turns to arrive.
When a new factory arrives, you must put a marker onto a city hex in your home country to reflect its construction (only in Britain for the Commonwealth until conquered). You can never have more than 2 blue factories in a hex. New factories are always blue factories.
If a printed factory is destroyed, you don’t have to rebuild it from scratch; you can repair it. This is cheaper and faster (4 build points and 2 turns). You can only repair printed factories, not factories you constructed.
"

[craigbear]

Thanks.

[paulderynck]

The thing is how long it will take you to accumulate 8 lent BPs. There's a limit to how many can arrive per turn and IIRC it may only be 2 for the Congo.

[craigbear]

4 turns then.

[davidc]

In our current game Free France has built a factory in Gabon
Free France was receiving 2BP a turn from CW and USA so didn't take long

[craigbear]

Is the per turn limit because there is only a minor port?

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: craigbear

Is the per turn limit because there is only a minor port?

No:
RAW:

You may save only 1 build point marker (of any value) in each city
or port (cumulative) in your major power’s home country (any
Commonwealth home country) and double these limits in your
major power’s capital

So Belgian Congo is a very good new Home country for Free France if you want to build a factory fast. One minor port and three cities (including the capital) means that you can send 5 BP (if you got the convoys in place, of course).

[paulderynck]

One thing in the RAW7 rules that has always seemed strange to me is that the rules for saving build points are different than for lend leasing them. The lend lease rule states: "you transport the promised build points to any city or major port in the recipient’s home country". So I think Belgian Congo is limited to receiving four per turn.

[Joseignacio]

I think I must be wrong, first because we always play the way Centuur says and second because Centuur usually beats me in the rules interpretation but:

13.6.4 Lend lease
(...)
Transport
During the production step, you transport the promised build points to any city or major port in the recipient’s home country (Britain’s in the case of the Commonwealth). You do this in exactly the same way as you transport resources (see 13.6.1), except that you can also transport an additional 2 build points to the capital and 1 to each other city and major port cumulative, each turn (e.g. you could transport 6 build points to London each turn; 2 for being the capital, 3 for the factories and 1 for the major port in the hex). Promised build points that can’t be transported are lost.

V
V
V
V

13.6.1 Resources
(...)
Transporting resources by sea
If you can’t rail a resource to a usable factory, you may be able to rail it to a port and then ship it overseas through a chain of sea areas, each containing convoy points. If that chain of sea areas extends to a port, you may then be able to rail the resource from that port to a usable factory.
You can rail a resource point both before and after shipping it overseas but you can not ship it overseas, then rail it, then ship it overseas again.

Example: You could rail a resource from the east coast of the USA to the west coast and ship it to the USSR via Vladivostok. You could then rail it to Moscow to become a production point. Since it has already moved overseas, you couldn't then rail it to Murmansk and on by sea to Britain.

Some resources are in coastal hexes that are not ports. You can pick these resources up directly from the coast as if they were at a minor port.

A side can only ship 5 resources a turn into, and/or out of, each minor port.
You can only ship as many resources through a sea area as the number of convoy points you have in that area.

[Joseignacio]

deleted for duplication

[craigbear]

Something weird happened when I shipped resources to Belgium Congo. I sent three and all through the turn I constantly checked that 3 were set to arrive in country... but for reasons unknown, only two were accepted in the production step. The third just disappeared... it did not even show up as having no route.

Some bug or other I suspect. I had to put a lot of resources on idle to get the convoys available and was happy when the production charts showed they would all arrive as expected... then boom, preliminary and final production, resource no. 3 simply disappeared as a trade item for both France and CW... did not even show a no path status.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: craigbear

Something weird happened when I shipped resources to Belgium Congo. I sent three and all through the turn I constantly checked that 3 were set to arrive in country... but for reasons unknown, only two were accepted in the production step. The third just disappeared... it did not even show up as having no route.

Some bug or other I suspect. I had to put a lot of resources on idle to get the convoys available and was happy when the production charts showed they would all arrive as expected... then boom, preliminary and final production, resource no. 3 simply disappeared as a trade item for both France and CW... did not even show a no path status.

Did the Free French production planning form show where those build points had to go (2 to the capital and one to another city)? If not, than the program probably assumes that they were all going to the capital. And that's not possible...

[craigbear]

They were all going to the capital. That was the default.

So I should have manually distributed them, I suppose.

That's a great explanation. I have since edited the game file to add the missing BP back in.

Thanks.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

I think I must be wrong, first because we always play the way Centuur says and second because Centuur usually beats me in the rules interpretation but:

13.6.4 Lend lease
(...)
Transport
During the production step, you transport the promised build points to any city or major port in the recipient’s home country (Britain’s in the case of the Commonwealth). You do this in exactly the same way as you transport resources (see 13.6.1), except that you can also transport an additional 2 build points to the capital and 1 to each other city and major port cumulative, each turn (e.g. you could transport 6 build points to London each turn; 2 for being the capital, 3 for the factories and 1 for the major port in the hex). Promised build points that can’t be transported are lost.

V
V
V
V

13.6.1 Resources
(...)
Transporting resources by sea
If you can’t rail a resource to a usable factory, you may be able to rail it to a port and then ship it overseas through a chain of sea areas, each containing convoy points. If that chain of sea areas extends to a port, you may then be able to rail the resource from that port to a usable factory.
You can rail a resource point both before and after shipping it overseas but you can not ship it overseas, then rail it, then ship it overseas again.

Example: You could rail a resource from the east coast of the USA to the west coast and ship it to the USSR via Vladivostok. You could then rail it to Moscow to become a production point. Since it has already moved overseas, you couldn't then rail it to Murmansk and on by sea to Britain.

Some resources are in coastal hexes that are not ports. You can pick these resources up directly from the coast as if they were at a minor port.

A side can only ship 5 resources a turn into, and/or out of, each minor port.
You can only ship as many resources through a sea area as the number of convoy points you have in that area.

The key words in 13.6.4 are "major port". Sure, hypothetically, if you had a minor with 7 cities but only accessible by one minor port, you'd be limited to sending 5 BPs. But that has nothing to do with the issue I was talking about.

[Joseignacio]

Paul, I was referring to this:

The thing is how long it will take you to accumulate 8 lent BPs. There's a limit to how many can arrive per turn and IIRC it may only be 2 for the Congo.

If I read the rules correctly FF could receive:

5 resources for the each minor port +
2 for the Capital +
1 for each city +
1 per major port.

Can't see the map right now but this surely mean more than 2 bp per turn possible to transport to Belgian Congo. At least 5+2 minor port+capital

[Centuur]

Paul is right. The rule for saving build points in RAW is different to the rule regarding the sending of build points. I never noticed this before... And I thought how to play the game... [&:]

So the minor port doesn't count for receiving traded build points. It's 4 that you can send to Belgian Congo in this case.