carrier groups cannot attack subs?

[boldairade]

this is the second turn in a MP game where the carrier groups cannot target a sub group.

a turn ago, my carrier group sortied out of scapa flow, moved 3 spaces, is 3 spaces away from a german sub group, but could not send its aircraft. yes, they are in naval attack mode.

this turn, neither my fleet nor the german subs have moved. still cannot target them.

any ideas?

[ago1000]

New sub hunter rule. CVs add a 2% defensive bonus, Patrol grps 1%. Can only hit subs in fleet mode. No more chasing subs in convoy lanes.

[ncc1701e]

Yeah

[boldairade]

how can we attack subs then?

[malkarma]

The only way to directly attack subs is with air units. Apart from this, the only losses that you will inflict to the subs will be made by your escorts.

[boldairade]

was the thought that subs weren't effective enough?

i'm a midling player at best. were advanced players unable to stop the sub raiding?

i've been attempting to get the pursuit mechanic to work, to no avail. is that just vs surface raiders?

this is a pretty big change in game play. it's totally in conflict with the manual. i wonder if there is a good explanation anywhere?

[ncc1701e]

See here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4918157

[gwgardner]

Remember that subs can be attacked by surface fleets when on a coastline hex, ie a shallow water hex.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

Remember that subs can be attacked by surface fleets when on a coastline hex, ie a shallow water hex.

Oh yes, are you sure? [;)] (private joke)

[kennonlightfoot]

ORIGINAL: ago1000

New sub hunter rule. CVs add a 2% defensive bonus, Patrol grps 1%. Can only hit subs in fleet mode. No more chasing subs in convoy lanes.

Are you sure about "fleet mode"?
I think I ran a test while in beta 9U17 using at least the DD's in Raider mode and they got the bonus.

[AlvaroSousa]

The mode doesn't matter for sub hunter.

But it is STILL way more cost effective to use escorts to hit subs.

[boldairade]

are the bonuses cumulative? if my enemy has subs in the N atlantic, should i park carriers all around him?

do the carriers need to be positioned within the convoy lane, or just close?

what constitutes a patrol group? are destroyer and cruiser groups 'patrol groups' for the purpose of sub hunting/bonusing up escorts?

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

See here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4918157

#3 (page 83) Sub Hunters – Naval fleets on a convoy hex icon will protect all friendly convoys within a 24 hex radius by adding a bonus to any escorts protecting a convoy attack in that area. Carrier battle groups add a 2% bonus to convoy escort damage chances vs subs. Patrol groups add a 1% bonus to convoy escort damage chances vs subs within their radius of protection.

So yes, fleets need to be on a convoy hex icon.
And yes the bonus are cumulative.

[ncc1701e]

And maybe I have found a better thread for you:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4914147

Happy sub hunting!!!

[OxfordGuy3]

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

Remember that subs can be attacked by surface fleets when on a coastline hex, ie a shallow water hex.

I presume that they can also be attack from the air by CVs then as well?

[Cigar King]

I have not been able to do so.

[OxfordGuy3]

ORIGINAL: Cigar King

I have not been able to do so.

What, not even if the sub is on a coastal hex (that's the only time CVs can directly attack subs, I think, in the latest patch)?

[Cigar King]

I've read that. So far I have not seen a sub in a coastal hex. Further I doubt I ever will, in the Atlantic anyway.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

See here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4918157

#3 (page 83) Sub Hunters – Naval fleets on a convoy hex icon will protect all friendly convoys within a 24 hex radius by adding a bonus to any escorts protecting a convoy attack in that area. Carrier battle groups add a 2% bonus to convoy escort damage chances vs subs. Patrol groups add a 1% bonus to convoy escort damage chances vs subs within their radius of protection.

So yes, fleets need to be on a convoy hex icon.
And yes the bonus are cumulative.

Just to be sure I understand this, each CV adds 2% and each patrol group adds 1% to the chance of an escort group damaging a sub. So they don't cause any additional damage, they just increase the chance of the escorts causing damage.

So if I have 1 CV and 2 patrol groups on a convoy route within 24 hexes of raiding enemy subs they will increase the chances of my escorts doing damage to the subs by 4%. So on average, once per year they will have the effect of helping cause damage of about 2 extra hits on subs. So if I have 3 of these groups of 1 CV and 2 patrol groups (total of 3 CVs and 6 patrol groups) out patrolling full time, I will on average score about 6 extra hits on subs per year. Do I have this right? If so, I question whether it is worth the effort.

Also when exactly in the turn do the German U-Boats attack Allied convoys? Is it at the end of the Allies turn or the end of the Axis turn? It seems to me that it is at the end of the Axis turn. If so, then isn't there the problem that if the Allies move their sub hunters within 24 hexes of a raiding U-Boat, the U-Boats will just move out of range on their turn? Now that U-Boats can move 48 hexes and still attack this is ridiculously easy for them.

I am hoping I have this all wrong.

[ago1000]

ORIGINAL: kennonlightfoot

ORIGINAL: ago1000

New sub hunter rule. CVs add a 2% defensive bonus, Patrol grps 1%. Can only hit subs in fleet mode. No more chasing subs in convoy lanes.

Are you sure about "fleet mode"?
I think I ran a test while in beta 9U17 using at least the DD's in Raider mode and they got the bonus.

Nope. I'm wrong. Fleet mode only means they will interdict within a 5 hex radius. Thanks You.