SPOILER: Drive/Advance on Loenen tips

MarkShot · Post by **MarkShot** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 9:33 pm

This thread is dedicated to Monsieur Valent who asked for some help for the RDOA Drive on Loenen Scenario which is the Advance on Loenen Scenario in HTTR.

I am going to assume you are playing with order delays set to PAINFUL. In this case, with only 12 hours available, you are only going to have preciously few order cycles ... perhaps just 2-4. Making the right decisions at the right time will be critical.

We'll refer to the three anonymous objectives as NORTH, WEST, and EAST. Observe the point break down, 75, 25, and 25 respectively. Clearly, you MUST take NORTH (Loenen), but you only really need to take either WEST or EAST to win. So, which should we discard WEST or EAST? I say discard WEST. Why? You have better terrain for movement on to NORTH from EAST. Also, WEST looks like better defensible terrain for the Germans. They could stop you dead (quite literally

) in those woods.

So, we are looking at a two step plan.

Phase I: Take EAST.
Phase II: Take NORTH.

During the battle, there may be some minor refinements. For example, once you have completed Phase I, you may want to block German counter attack/reinforcements coming from WEST.

One of the first things which you need to do is set up your arty fire base. The 75mm Howitzers are not initially in range of Loenen. You'll also need to determine whether to leave the mortar platoons with their organic formations or take direct control. Given the short distances for these attacks, I would be inclined to take direct control.

You should also note that you have only two motorized units: the engineers and the ATG unit. You should have those engineers proceed to EAST and make contact as quick as possible. This will give you an idea of the German disposition at EAST. You can then begin to hit them with arty and finalize your attack plan if you are within the first 59 minutes of the scenario without penalty.

I would allocate 1 Bn to take and hold EAST and 2 Bn to take NORTH.

Some final tips ... you only have 12 hours ... so, your troops should be making a maximal effort ... meaning:

ROF=MAX
AGGRO=MAX
CASUALITIES=MAX
MOVE=FASTEST
ROUTE=QUICKEST

Well, give it a try and see how it goes.

PS: Don't forget to paint on Standartenfuhrer Spindler's CP in Loenen for me, "MarkShot says, 'Have a nice day, Ludwig!'".

Golf33 · Post by **Golf33** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 3:52 am

Good stuff there. One (small) correction: the airborne engineers are not in fact motorized. There are 142 engineers with only 8 jeeps and those vehicles are only used for carrying the heavy equipment required by engineer units.

Despite this, giving the engineers separate orders will probably result in them moving ahead of the battalion columns - 142 men in a single organisation can get where they are going at a far faster rate than 585 spread over five organisations which obviously requires a bit of coordination.

Cheers
33

MarkShot · Post by **MarkShot** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 3:56 am

Oops! That's what happens when you give advice without trying it yourself.

MarkShot · Post by **MarkShot** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 6:50 am

Okay, I decided to play this one through. I had played it in the distant past.

I am posting to add one other key insight. You will need to attack EAST pretty much straight up the road heading North. With that road and EAST cleared, you will have adequate time to make your attack on NORTH.

I had attacked EAST from the East with 1 Bn and NORTH (Loenen) from the woods with 2 Bn that took a covered route to the East skirting EAST. This (the first link) is a screen shot taken at Day 1 @ 18:00. Although I am in excellent shape here, I am out of time! (My covered route through the woods cost me too much time.) If only I had a 2-3 more hours!

I have highlighted a few key items in the screen shot.

The second and third screen shot shows the final outcome.

---

For all of you who are asking yourselves what happened to HTTR's new graphic tiles ... I am not as young as I used to be and changes seem to come hard. So, I am playing with the RDOA graphic tiles. (It's an easy swap back and forth.) Additionally, I actually prefer the original graphic tiles as I find them to be higher contrast.

I, also, wanted to post using the RDOA graphic tiles so as to not confuse Phil who asked the question about playing this scenario in RDOA.

---

This goes to show you that there is no such thing as a "walk in the park" when it comes to HTTR.

I hope I haven't irreparably tarnished the image of the Panther Prowlers by losing. (I can just see them holding a vote on Wednesday to eject me.)

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/ ... s/lo01.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/ ... s/lo02.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/ ... s/lo03.jpg

VALENT PHILIPPE · Post by **VALENT PHILIPPE** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:02 pm

To Mark Shot, think you very much for all informations about the scenario "drive in loenen". i have some works to do for understand and apply all the directives. i think that i buy the next game when it comes in france!! there is always somebody who helps me when there is a problem like this. thinks.
phil

Arjuna · Post by **Arjuna** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:47 pm

Phil,

The key in this scenario is not to engage the enemy on your way to the objective. Time is of the essence.You need to bypass enemy each time they are encountered. Essentially, this operation should be fought as two phases. First, infiltrate through the enemy main line of resistance ( MLR ), then attack Loenen.

While both options are possible I prefer to infiltrate in separate battalion groups rather than one combined Regiment. You may like to order three separate companies to recon out front on three axis of advance. That way if they get encounter the enemy, you can then manouvre the main bodies around the enemy. This works well if you are playing with NO orders delay. Otherwise ( you are playing with orders delay ) simply order the three battalions to Move with speed set to Fastest, Aggro to Min and Formation to Road Column. Give them just one or two interim waypoints.

When you encounter an enemy blocking force, bombard it. This will assist the para units in disengaging and bypassing the enemy.

Form up for your attack south and SW of Loenen. Go in with all guns blazing. If you can go in with two battalions. but if this means a long delay waiting for a seconf battalion to form up, then I would recommend an immediate Bn level attack with all the arty support you can muster.

Good luck.

JeF · Post by **JeF** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:29 am

Nice try Mark,

I played 20+ times this scenario from the demo (and obviously from the full game). I lost 19+ time. Usually, I ran out of time, like you did. Hence my sig.

This is a difficult nut to crack and, as the AI does not always do the same thing, even the same tactics might not work another time.

This small scenario clearly shows all the interrest of the AA game engine. You might think a 3 days campaign as six 12 hours battles like this, where you have to hit hard the ennemy, sometimes bypass un-important positions, to get to the perfect position, on time and in good shape.

As an anecdote, on one of my several tries I launched the regiment along the West road. I got the first objectives and all was fine. Then, as I went full speed to Loenene, one small ennemy company played a perfect delay action. I lost, as usual. :rolleyes:

See you,

JeF.

VALENT PHILIPPE · Post by **VALENT PHILIPPE** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:56 pm

[I played 20+ times this scenario from the demo (and obviously from the full game). I lost 19+ time. Usually, I ran out of time, like you did. Hence my
sig.

Bonjour,

YOU say that you lost many times and you are a good player! and me a " debutant"!!? how i do to play the game if it is too hard for me? i have to put the game on the trash! no? what can i do to understand how to win? try to explain all the _base_ tactics to all scenarios to me, it will be nice to have fun to play.OK? thinks .phil
" i am "decouragé" , unhappy. snif

MarkShot · Post by **MarkShot** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:31 pm

See:

showthread.php?t=46483

VALENT PHILIPPE · Post by **VALENT PHILIPPE** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:04 pm

[MarkShot]thinks to you, i read and examine yor tutorial. its very interesting and understand better this game.
oh , i have a little problem if you can see in the forum to UV foe scenario 7 and 9 .i have no answers to my questions.
thinks very much for this response AA. phil

MarkShot · Post by **MarkShot** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:06 pm

Sorry. I don't own UV.

VALENT PHILIPPE · Post by **VALENT PHILIPPE** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:11 pm

its not a matter. if you know somebody who helps me ... thinks phil

MarkShot · Post by **MarkShot** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:17 pm

Phil,

Did you ever think you are into too many things at once?

I usually only try to master one new game at a time. Of course, I am familiar with various games, then I switch between playing different ones every few days.

That's for strategy games. When I used to fly air combat, I often found switching different air combat games would tend to mess up my touch and timing. So, I tended to only stick with a single game for flying competitively which was my favorite.

MarkShot · Post by **MarkShot** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:30 pm

Phil,

I just checked your profile. You're a dentist. Too bad you are in France and I am in the USA. I and my wife have no dental insurance. I would have happily traded RDOA/HTTR tutoring for free dental care. Oh well ... Let me know if you ever relocate your practice to New Jersey, USA.

VALENT PHILIPPE · Post by **VALENT PHILIPPE** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:51 pm

[I just checked your profile. You're a dentist. Too bad you are in France and I am in the USA. I and my wife have no dental insurance. I would have happily traded RDOA/HTTR tutoring for free dental care. Oh well ... Let me know if you ever relocate your practice to New Jersey, USA.

no unfortunately i am to old abandon france to USA its a pity i know but i cannot!! but we can speak by e mail its better for you and i don't torture you by my trade!oh a little question: what the difference in your manual between organic super force , supreme force, organic sub force?does i have to split all the forces? its a little confused to me . please help me one time more!!!
phil

JeF · Post by **JeF** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:09 pm

[QUOTE=VALENT PHILIPPEBonjour,

YOU say that you lost many times and you are a good player! and me a " debutant"!!? how i do to play the game if it is too hard for me[/QUOTE]

Salut Phil,

A small correction : I am *not* a good AA player.
After time (I played the demo during 2 months before deciding to buy it), I got used to it. As you did, I also looked for help into the game forum.
Some of these guys are *really* good (even Markshot

).

Don't give up. You already have the first game. there is no need to trash it. Play it, learn about it.

JeF.

Golf33 · Post by **Golf33** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:00 am

VALENT PHILIPPE wrote:[I played 20+ times this scenario from the demo (and obviously from the full game). I lost 19+ time. Usually, I ran out of time, like you did. Hence my
sig.
Bonjour,
YOU say that you lost many times and you are a good player! and me a " debutant"!!? how i do to play the game if it is too hard for me? i have to put the game on the trash! no? what can i do to understand how to win? try to explain all the _base_ tactics to all scenarios to me, it will be nice to have fun to play.OK? thinks .phil
" i am "decouragé" , unhappy. snif

Don't be discouraged by Drive On Loenen, Phil. This might be a short scenario with small forces, but it's probably the hardest scenario in the game. It's definitely harder than playing the historical campaign as the Allies!

As for your other questions:

Supreme Force: This is the highest HQ on the map for your side. In Drive On Loenen, this is the 504th Para Regt HQ.

You can always find the Supreme Force by clicking on the map away from any units, then pressing the Up Arrow key on your keyboard.

Organic SubForce: These are the units under command of an HQ, in the normal command structure (which is what you have at the start of the game). In Drive On Loenen the Organic SubForces of 504th Para Regt HQ are: the 504th Para Regt Base; the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Bn HQs; A Bty 80th Abn AT Bn; A Coy 307th Abn Eng Bn; and the 376th Para Arty Bn. The Organic SubForces of 1st Bn 504th Para Regt HQ are A, B, and C Coy 1/504, and Mortar Pl 1/504th Regt.

At the start of a game, you can find the Organic SubForces of any unit by selecting that unit. A green line will appear between that unit and each of its Organic SubForces. If you select the unit, then press the Down Arrow key, then one of the Organic SubForces will be selected; if you then press the Left or Right Arrow keys, the selection will cycle between all the Organic SubForces of that unit.

During the game, giving an order to any unit effectively places that unit under the direct command of the Supreme Force and if that unit has a different Organic SuperForce, it will be "detached" from that HQ and will not receive any further orders from it until you reattach it.

Organic SuperForce: This is the unit in command of a unit, in the normal command structure. In Drive on Loenen, the Organic SuperForce of A Coy 1/504 is 1st Bn 504th Para Regt HQ. The Organic SuperForce of 1st Bn 504th Para Regt HQ is the 504th Para Regt HQ.

At the start of the game you can find the Organic SuperForce of a unit by selecting that unit then pressing the Up Arrow key.

During the game, grouping units from different Organic SuperForces together (for example, giving an order to 1st Bn 504th Para Regt HQ and D/504th) will "attach" the extra unit to the new HQ. In effect the new HQ becomes a 'Temporary SuperForce' for that unit and the unit becomes a 'Temporary SubForce' of the new HQ. This unit will respond to orders from the Temporary SuperForce and not respond to orders from its Organic SuperForce, until you reattach it.

During the game, if you select a unit, a blue line will link that unit with its current HQ (whether it is the Organic or Temporary SuperForce), and a green line will link that unit and any units under its command (whether they are its Organic or Temporary SubForces).

During the game, if you select a unit that you have given an order to, a grey line will link that unit with its Organic SuperForce. If you reattach that unit, all its SubForces (Organic and Temporary) will be reattached to their Organic SuperForces.

Does that help at all?

Regards
33

MarkShot · Post by **MarkShot** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:05 am

JeF wrote: Some of these guys are *really* good (even Markshot ).
JeF.

I am not good. As a Beta Tester whenever I win a scenario, Dave and Steve start thinking there is something wrong with the play balance and tweaking it to make it harder.

MarkShot · Post by **MarkShot** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:30 am

The important thing is that anyone can really get up to speed playing RDOA or HTTR. I had spent almost 10 years flying air combat. My understanding of ground warfare was nil. You just need to keep at it and try various things.

I would recommend small to moderate size/length scenarios. I think playing the campaigns has too much going on to elucidate the basic techniques. However, as you have discovered the shortest scenarios come with their own unique challenge of being very pressed on time.

Soon, you too, will be winning praise from Monty and Model.

VALENT PHILIPPE · Post by **VALENT PHILIPPE** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:51 am

thinks for all your answers.

i worked all this for the WE :p thinks very much . phil

SPOILER: Drive/Advance on Loenen tips

SPOILER: Drive/Advance on Loenen tips

THINKS