Economic Manipulation

[Wellington12347]

I'm curious as to other player's thoughts on Economic Manipulation. Who uses it, who doesn't, why, etc.?

[Black Hat]

Almost Always. At least +1 with Turkey, Spain, Prussia, Austria you usually have excess manpower, GB $$$$. France almost always +2 you need allot of points and GB will usually whip you with reduction (8.1.2)

[Nordiska]

When I used to play (Haven't in years) I always preferred economic manipulation. Could help out in a bind.

[pfnognoff]

It was usualy used to reduce manpower and increase VPs.

Turkey - every economic phase, except when the money man from Paris arrives

Other powers - try to use this option if it would make them score more VPs that turn, and if it would be wise considering the current position on the VP track in regards to automatic adjustment.

At desperate times it is used to prevent going into the civil disorder.

I did see it sometimes used the other way arround (increase manpower) by Britain, and ocassionally by France.

[Wellington12347]

It was usualy used to reduce manpower and increase VPs.

Turkey - every economic phase, except when the money man from Paris arrives

Other powers - try to use this option if it would make them score more VPs that turn, and if it would be wise considering the current position on the VP track in regards to automatic adjustment.

At desperate times it is used to prevent going into the civil disorder.

I did see it sometimes used the other way arround (increase manpower) by Britain, and ocassionally by France.

Can economic manipulation be used to stave of civil disorder if the nation's capital is occupied (as it would need to be to deprive the power of ALL its manpower collection)?


Jason

[Hoche]

Can economic manipulation be used to stave of civil disorder if the nation's capital is occupied (as it would need to be to deprive the power of ALL its manpower collection)?


Jason

No because I think the rules say that any economic manipulation is set to zero when the capital is occupied during the econ phase.

The converse to the above question would be can economic manipulation be the cause of a nation going into civil disorder?

[Pippin]

I use the manipulation quite often. It is not always needed for those emergency purposes.

[pfnognoff]

Can economic manipulation be used to stave of civil disorder if the nation's capital is occupied (as it would need to be to deprive the power of ALL its manpower collection)?


Jason

Point taken, I used the wrong term. I should have said it can be used to prevent going in the instability zone.

I need this game quickly before I forget all the terms

[Wellington12347]

I believe the money and manpower collection step comes before the econ manipulation step. My understanding has always been that "collecting manpower" under the civil disorder rule pertains exclusively to the manpower collected during the former step. Thus, econ mannipulation could neither prevent a country from going into civil disorder nor cause it to.

Saved manpower for Prussia would not be considered to be "collected" each subsequent economic phase either (I had someone argue once that it did but Avalon Hill gave an official response that it didn't).

Jason

[Black Hat]

The other thing that I have seen is Turkey/Spain go @ -1 $ when they are in the Neutral Area of the points chart. What happens is at manipulation you slide down a box than in Political status Adjustment you slide right (left) back up. The lower VP states can float in the Neutral Zone gaining 7/8 VPs with no problem.

The other Area that gets tricky is the Max 15 box. Since Manipulation comes before adjustment, if you are in the 15 box the + adjustment is wasted. If I remember right, in the Max 15 VP point box you slide down -3, in the next lower box 14 you slide down -2, so if you see it coming you manip @ -1 to the 14 box and have the same slide. Then in New combinations or via alliances you try to get the +3 back to the 15 box (create the King of Bavaria +1 and the Confed of the Rhine +2). Eventually during a long peace the trick is to get to the highest point -2 box so you can slide back up +2 in the Manip phase.