Avalon Hills Squad Leader

Klinkenhoffen · Post by **Klinkenhoffen** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:24 am

Hello,

just curious if there is anyone out there who still plays the original Squad Leader, not just Advanced Squad Leader.

I bought the entire series in the late '80's, played them, put them away and recently rediscovered them. At the time I couldn't afford the expence of ASL even though it is a superior game. I don't play enough to justify buying ASL today.

Please no responces from the philistines of "whats a board game?". :p

Les the Sarge is a true believer. He will understand.

Klinkenhoffen

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:34 am

I saw a mint copy of SL a while ago unopened and everything for 9 bucks along with a mint unopened Panzerblitz same price.

Still not willing to forgive myself for that moment of discipline for not spending my then limited cash on them

SL has many features that still make it a good game. If I was to play SL though, odds are I would require it be just that SL not CoI or CoD or GI AoV.

ASL is a great game only because it was built from the start to be the same way at the end. Whereas SL was fine, then they started adding things to it. By the time you had GI it was no longer properly balanced.

If they had never gone beyond SL odds are I would still be playing it and calling it one of the best games ever made as well.

You might like knowing Klink, that you can play SL via VASL as well eh.

ShermanM4 · Post by **ShermanM4** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:03 am

I'll never forget my copy of Panzerblitz

(sniffle) wind and board games just dont mix.

Never played Squad Leader, I gave up my copy of West Front when I finally had no one to play it with.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:16 am

Squad Leader and Panzerblitz (or actually more like Panzer Leader to some extent). Those two games will ALWAYS rank as two games that computer wargames will never surpass no matter what the bells and whistles offered are.

They were easy to play, fun to play, and you could play them for hours.

Klinkenhoffen · Post by **Klinkenhoffen** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:15 am

I had recently, please don't tell Avalon Hills this, considered scanning the rules books into my computer, cutting, pasting and blending into a steam lined set of rules for myself.

The job turned out to be just too big so I have abandoned the idea for now.

Les you have given me an idea though. Use only the SL rules book. I liked the armour and field gun rules from Cross of Iron so supplimet the SL rules with those as additionals. Yes the key is simplicity.

Trying to prevent costs. Could I purchace the ASL rule book and use the SL counters or are they completely different?

ShermanM4, the wind and counters. AHHH. I also had the additional problem of Cats and counters/boards.

Klink

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:54 am

Alas SL and ASL have the same parents, but are still different looking eh.

SL's beauty was it did what it did without undue complexity. Part of me actually misses the fact you could play SL with next to no effort.
ASL is a thing of incredible accuracy, but it has a price, and that price is complexity.

Programmed Instruction was pure genius. It is sad it got left behind after they strayed beyond the original SL package.

The 5/8th counters in ASL have about 4 times the data density from SL. Now of course if you stuck with just Infantry and Support Weapons you might just be able to get away with it. But you could never get away with it for ordnance or vehicles. The Misc counters are well just misc counters eh. A person could hand make those.

ASL counters are not so detailed data wise where the Infantry counters are concerned, and you could likely easily add the new details to old Infantry counters. Although you can bet, that ASL has a great wealth of Infantry counters beyond German, Russian and USA hehe. And that you would miss out on.

benpark · Post by **benpark** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:16 am

I finnaly dusted off my SL, CoI, CoD, and GI Anvil-as well as Panzerblitz and Fortress Europa. The counters are a damned mess, so I've got some sorting ahead of me...I still have a ton more in my Mother's basement waiting for me to find room for em in my place.

I loved CoI because of the theatre, but always wanted to try the Pacific and African Fronts that ASL offered. Someday, 'cause the next boardgame I'm getting (someday) would be Streets of Stalingrad (150 USD$).

ShermanM4 · Post by **ShermanM4** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:09 pm

I know this will sound vague. I had dozens of board games and I know for a fact that some were specifically Avalon Hill, but many were not. I had titles like June, 6th DDay and the Battle of the Bulge, which had beautifully illustrated covers with people and events including famous quotes. The boards were colorfully illustrated according to the terrain. They had a multitude of colored unit tiles and so on. Oh, there was the awsome order of battle chart which released certain units on certain turns. I know I can just check the net for these, I'm sure ill find'em but did anybody else have those titles?

Klink, I was lucky I had one little dog that never cared about my board games.

Brigz · Post by **Brigz** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:39 am

Les the Sarge 9-1 wrote:I saw a mint copy of SL a while ago unopened and everything for 9 bucks along with a mint unopened Panzerblitz same price.

Still not willing to forgive myself for that moment of discipline for not spending my then limited cash on them

Les. Speaking about discipline for not spending limited cash, did you happen to hear that the final module for ASL, "Armies of Oblivion" is finally about to be released. And here is the discipline part.. it will be priced at 84 bucks!!! And that's just the pre-order price. The suggested retail will be $112. That's right.. four mapboards, six counter sheets and the usual Chapter H and 12 scenarios for $84! The discipline part for me is to actually buy it even though I feel we are being gouged to the max. But then, it's been about five years since the last base game module was published so I guess I can rationalize it by dividing 84 by 5 and that works out to only $16 a year. Sheesh! 84 bucks!

Good thing I'm addicted to this game and at long last the thing will be finished.

Steelwhip · Post by **Steelwhip** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:10 am

SL was the VERY first war game I cut my teeth on as a wee lad in 1980. My next door neighbor had it and he taught it to me. I rember with fondness 2 of my favorite scenerios.....'The Red Barracades' and 'Hill 621'.....

It was the begining of my long decent into wargaming....Panzer Leader was the first wargame I ever owned. And since then I probley purchased well over 100 table top games and still own most of them. Unfortinatley most of them I never had the oportunity to play face to face with somone.

I miss table top wargaming. At heart I would much rather push cardboard counters over a papermap as opposed to playing on a computer. But no one seems to do table top anymore.....tried to give VASL a try..but couldnt figure out the interface and how it really ran.

~sigh~

Ahhh for a good old fashion face to face game....

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:27 am

Good god Dave are those US prices?

If so, hmm this fanatic will have to pass on Armies of Oblivion which has an exceptionally adequate name !!

This wargamer has lets see, all the Russians, Germans, French, Italians, British, Marines/US Army, Japanese, Chinese, as well as Partisans and the original Minors now.

I think if anyone has been left off that list, they are just going to have to deal with it

.

84 bucks!! ouch, I thought Armies of Oblivion was going to be like one of the lesser modules that finally saw the light of day frankly. I was prepared for 30 to 40 bucks for a game I love dearly. But hmm you say 84 is the early price and 112 is the main price. I don't even want to know what the Canadian price plus shipping is to be honest.

112 bucks US, that's equal to enough dvd blanks (ain't a cheap article eh) to convert my entire war documentary vhs collection into dvd (one of my current desires). Given a choice of Armies of Oblivion, or all my war documentaries on disk, it is unlikely my mind can wrap itself around that purchase.

Who IS in charge at MMP anyways?

Challerain · Post by **Challerain** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:02 am

There is also the option to pre-order AoO without the maps for $48 US. The maps are 48-51 and have been available for a couple of years.

DPoM · Post by **DPoM** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 7:42 am

Do I need to dig out the actual scenario sheets to be able to use VASL? I can't seem to find victory conditions and the SSR in the scenarios themselves

Steelwhip · Post by **Steelwhip** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 8:09 am

<<Do I need to dig out the actual scenario sheets to be able to use VASL? I can't seem to find victory conditions and the SSR in the scenarios themselves>>

yes....VASL dosnt have a listing of scenerios...you need to have the scenrios sheets to be able to set up the game....

I do rember that from my brief time playing with VASL....

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:57 pm

Yep, an important reminder, VASL lets you use the computer to play your game, it isn't itself a game, it's a tool.

Brigz · Post by **Brigz** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 7:12 pm

Challerain wrote:There is also the option to pre-order AoO without the maps for $48 US. The maps are 48-51 and have been available for a couple of years.

That's what I've decided to do. Pre-order the w/o maps version for $48 from MMP and then I'll buy the boards from the guy I usually get stuff from for $20 and that works out to $68. Still a hefty sum but much better than $84 or $112 by far. I just hope the w/o maps preorder comes with a box and isn't shipped in an envelope. Wouldn't surprise me.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 7:31 pm

Hmm, limited supplies.

I won't enjoy it, but I might spend the weekend pondering if this might be a good christmas gift suggestion.
Other than a book I want, I have not got anything on the list yet.

Brigz · Post by **Brigz** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 9:53 pm

Dave Briggs wrote:That's what I've decided to do. Pre-order the w/o maps version for $48 from MMP and then I'll buy the boards from the guy I usually get stuff from for $20 and that works out to $68. Still a hefty sum but much better than $84 or $112 by far. I just hope the w/o maps preorder comes with a box and isn't shipped in an envelope. Wouldn't surprise me.

Well, nix that idea. I just found out that the boards arn't available and that mounted board prices will go up to $12 apiece. Gag! So, it looks like I'll just have to preorder the dang thing for $84. With these enormous price increases I'm beginning to think that MMP is about ready to jump ship and close down or sell out. This type of thing has always been a pretty reliable indicator of when a game company is about to go out of business. Hasbro must really be putting the heat on MMP.

Klinkenhoffen · Post by **Klinkenhoffen** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:53 am

It is good to see that there are still player of SL/ASL out there.

I first started playing Steel Panthers when it became difficult finding opponents for Squad Leader. The time factor and negotiating a location to play all become harder when full time work/ families/ studies were factored in.

Steel Panthers allowed me to continue to play a SL type game but with the convienance of the electronic world but, and I think it was Les the Sarge who said it, it lacks the face to face contact, eg when you it all goes wrong for your opponent(or you) and you can see the expression on their face.

Having just rediscovered Squad Leader, I think that there is a place now for both with me.

klink

Fredflak · Post by **Fredflak** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:27 pm

I've been very curious about ASL and SL. Being a young wargamer, new to then hobby who is starting to collect wargames, it lists in my Must-Have category.

But it did take a drop in my priorities when I saw the rules for that thing. Almost seems to be complex only to be complex, like complexity is a badge of honor of some sort.

Finding players for face to face games is also a problem, i'm a 23 yo guys, which from what i've gathered is considered young in the board wargaming world.

And well, not a lot of poeple I know enjoy games that are not on computers, missing the whole fun of teasing a face to face opponent when you see a weak spot in his line, burst through, cutting him off and slaughtering him.

And well, with the lack of players, high complexity games like ASL take a big drop in priority, I can find players for wargames, just don't think I could find someone else willing to learn the ASL rules.

Avalon Hills Squad Leader

Avalon Hills Squad Leader

Panzerblitz

Of Board Games