[Logged] Submarines - Bit too underwhelming?

[thewood1]

So played around with detection ranges.

* With the SSN straight ahead of the TAKR, detection is between 9 and 10 nm.
* With SSN offset about 10-15 degrees from the path of the TAKR, detection of the SSN drops to 4nm
* Below the layer on straight ahead, the TAKR almost never seems to detect the SSN.

I substituted a 1991 DDG Spruance to see what a peer ASW suite looks like. It detects the SSN about 9nm straight ahead and 4nm more than 10 degrees of the bow of the ship. Which is similar to the Horse Jaw. I am no expert in sonar and maybe they are all wrong, but the Horse Jaw seems to work comparably with an SQS on peer sonar suites. My gut says detection straight ahead might provide better detection, but I don't know if that's true in real life.

[thewood1]

btw, its not very helpful to put a technical issue inside another older longer thread that's not related to a specific issue. It makes it hard for the devs to keep track of issues they have to address.

[BDukes]

ORIGINAL: thewood1

btw, its not very helpful to put a technical issue inside another older longer thread that's not related to a specific issue. It makes it hard for the devs to keep track of issues they have to address.

Watching thewood pick on one of the founding members of HHQ. Pop Corn grabbed.

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: BDukes

ORIGINAL: thewood1

btw, its not very helpful to put a technical issue inside another older longer thread that's not related to a specific issue. It makes it hard for the devs to keep track of issues they have to address.

Watching thewood pick on one of the founding members of HHQ. Pop Corn grabbed.

There's no need to pringle anyone like that. Steve is an adult and he can answer for himself if he feels offended by thewood1's remark.

Calm down.

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: thewood1

So played around with detection ranges.

* With the SSN straight ahead of the TAKR, detection is between 9 and 10 nm.
* With SSN offset about 10-15 degrees from the path of the TAKR, detection of the SSN drops to 4nm
* Below the layer on straight ahead, the TAKR almost never seems to detect the SSN.

I substituted a 1991 DDG Spruance to see what a peer ASW suite looks like. It detects the SSN about 9nm straight ahead and 4nm more than 10 degrees of the bow of the ship. Which is similar to the Horse Jaw. I am no expert in sonar and maybe they are all wrong, but the Horse Jaw seems to work comparably with an SQS on peer sonar suites. My gut says detection straight ahead might provide better detection, but I don't know if that's true in real life.

That's an interesting observation. I don't remember offhand any factor that would cause such a drastic difference between dead-ahead and off-boresight detections. Will need to dig into this a bit.

[BDukes]

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

ORIGINAL: BDukes

ORIGINAL: thewood1

btw, its not very helpful to put a technical issue inside another older longer thread that's not related to a specific issue. It makes it hard for the devs to keep track of issues they have to address.

Watching thewood pick on one of the founding members of HHQ. Pop Corn grabbed.

There's no need to pringle anyone like that. Steve is an adult and he can answer for himself if he feels offended by thewood1's remark.

Calm down.

I'm totally calm and ok. Interesting though that Paul, Mike and Rag are no longer around. Anybody notice? Its as if there was a great disturbance in the force. I miss those guys.

[Flankerk]

Nah not offended. To be fair I did think about resurrecting the thread, however in effect its the same issue and I thought I'd found a solution.
(I'm not so sure now, i.e. the Russian Sonar's are getting the effect of active pinging when they aren't.)

Been retesting the same scenario but with a 2018 Astute class instead. I'd post a save but its precisely the same. The Astute picks up a Sovremenny and the TAKR at around 12NM.
The Sovremenny doesn't detect at all. The Gorshkov however does detect the Astute at just beyond 7.5 NM on Horse Jaw.

I had thought sound was primarily a circular effect like a pebble in a pond with the ripples evenly spread but I could very easily be wrong.

Of course the fact that the ahead zone seems to get a better return resurrects my active sonar theory!!

A detection on Horse Jaw at about 7 or 8 NM might be on the high side, however the sea state on the scn is NIL and all are doing 5 knots which might help throw things.

Must admit Seventh battle is one of my favourites

[thewood1]

Common sense would say you are correct on sound propagation. My thought wasn't that. My thought was orientation of the sensor. Maybe something is in the sonar model that makes the sonar sensor better at detecting from straight on. And I'm not talking real life, I am just talking in the game.

btw, I don't think it has anything to do with active. I turned active on and the detections were completely different. I think the key is that other platforms with different, but similar sonar platforms have the same result.

[MH-60Deuce]

I wonder why you not stating this "calm down" messages towards your opinion butler thewood when he is insulting countless others for no reasons or derailing every serious discussion with nonsense.
 
Ah yes, because having circle jerk discussions is more convenient than to do professional research.

MOD EDIT: Let's try this again, without full-on rude this time, eh? Let's give it a go.

[IainMcNeil]

This is a very passionate community but that's no excuse for deliberately winding each other up and being rude. Everyone please be patient and polite or we will lock this thread.

[MH-60Deuce]

ORIGINAL: MH-60Deuce

MOD EDIT: Let's try this again, without full-on douche this time, eh? Let's give it a go.

Let´s try this again with professionalism and developing a game based on solid research eh? Let´s give it a go. Or go ahead and censor posts again.

As requested, back to the topic:

There should be already enough evidence in this thread when it comes to the issues. Excuses like "submarines are given a deliberately easy time in real word ASW excercises" makes this even more a joke. Judging by the thread the biggest problem lies in the lack of subject knowledge and lack of willingness to conduct professional research when it comes to realistic sub ops by the CMO team. You can´t build a realistic sim by relying solely on your preferred opinion out of convenience, "my hairdresser´s pal thinks..." -facts-, and neglecting everything else.

Verdict:
Don´t get CMO if you´re looking for realistic submarine and anti-submarine operations, this game is simply not upholding to this standard.

[Dimitris]

No worries, research and development into this matter has been ongoing. We've been talking with people whose identities and credentials are verifiable, and who understand they don't need to antagonize us (or question our "professionalism" - LOL) to get what they want.

It's just that trolls like you are not part of the process.

[MH-60Deuce]

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

No worries, research and development into this matter has been ongoing. We've been talking with people whose identities and credentials are verifiable, and who understand they don't need to antagonize us (or question our "professionalism" - LOL) to get what they want.

It's just that trolls like you are not part of the process.

In your world asking for neutral and professional research which is not based on your fantasy or convenience might be a troll thing for most of us it isn´t. Thats fine I didn´t expect much more of you when I saw your instant and likely emotional-amped up reply flying in here.

To make things clear for all of here Dimitris offered me to assist the CMO team in getting the flawed CMO subsim fixed. I rejected him and told him that there is enough osint (free information) out there requiring little effort. Furthermore you don´t start by basing a sim on individual accounts only. Thats not how you do a research.

To make another thing absolutely clear, I never would even work together with you, not even for grand money. I used to work together with open-minded competent indivduals and can´t imagine to stand a single day with you being the complete opposite of these ideals.

The time you spent here with forum wars you could already invested into starting some proper subops research.

[IainMcNeil]

This is a warning. You have been reminded of the need to be polite and ignored it. If you do not behave with respect for other members of the community and the team you will be banned.

We will only respond to comments and questions that are phrased in a polite and respectful manner.

I am locking this thread as a result.