Trento and Alpine Front edit

[OldCrowBalthazor]

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

You know if you want to make a hex impassable you can probably edit high mountain to have a movement cost of 8+ instead of 4

Then again I think aircraft could still land on it and you could do a swap so maybe it's not impassable

Oh...you know that trick too? [:D]
I used that in a WaW game to move a Chinese HQ across an 'impassable' mountain range. I told my opponent my Flying Tigers were reassigned as baggage handlers and trail spotters for the HQ staff haha....did take awhile though. I grounded that ftr and started swapping away........

Atm..I'll leave the high mountains as they are..but I will take your advise with consideration. Thanks!

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Trento and Alpine Front V.3

Well...it looks aesthetically appealing. Switzerland doesn't hog all the lofty mountains in the Alps now. [;)]

This may serve to split the Alpine Front into a west and east sector like it was historically with the Alta Adige more imposing. I believe this mirrors what you have Stockwellpete, let me know yea or nay.

I'm going to go ahead and start a campaign hotseat test playing both sides myself inbetween some PM's I have going and RL stuff of course...so it maybe a while before I see action here. (I plan to hit Austria-Hungary hard with the Russians haha, so the KuK will have to come up with a shoestring defense in the Alps and/or beg for German aid after the Italians come on the scene.)

Tally-ho!

[stockwellpete]

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

Trento and Alpine Front V.3

Well...it looks aesthetically appealing. Switzerland doesn't hog all the lofty mountains in the Alps now. [;)]

This may serve to split the Alpine Front into a west and east sector like it was historically with the Alta Adige more imposing. I believe this mirrors what you have Stockwellpete, let me know yea or nay.

I'm going to go ahead and start a campaign hotseat test playing both sides myself inbetween some PM's I have going and RL stuff of course...so it maybe a while before I see action here. (I plan to hit Austria-Hungary hard with the Russians haha, so the KuK will have to come up with a shoestring defense in the Alps and/or beg for German aid after the Italians come on the scene.)

Tally-ho!

Yes, that is it. I think that should work OK in MP.

[stockwellpete]

Update:
AI Italians have taken Trento on 14 August 1915 (without artillery) and are now finally attacking across the Isonzo. I was trying to defend this area with Austro-Hungarian troops only but I think they still may need German help (Italy and Germany were not at war until mid 1916).

[OldCrowBalthazor]

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

Update:
AI Italians have taken Trento on 14 August 1915 (without artillery) and are now finally attacking across the Isonzo. I was trying to defend this area with Austro-Hungarian troops only but I think they still may need German help (Italy and Germany were not at war until mid 1916).

Do you remember or can see what the Austro-Hungarian trench tech is at on that turn (and prior starting in June-July if you have that? Also, was Trento Fortress repeatedly assaulted or not prior to your August 14 1915 turn?

[stockwellpete]

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

Do you remember or can see what the Austro-Hungarian trench tech is at on that turn (and prior starting in June-July if you have that? Also, was Trento Fortress repeatedly assaulted or not prior to your August 14 1915 turn?

Austrian Trench Tech was on Tech 1, I think. I have deleted the game now. Yes, the Italians assaulted for 3 turns in total before taking Trento.

[stockwellpete]

New trial game. I put a German Infantry Corp unit in Trento late 1914 and another one in Bruneck in early 1915. On the Isonzo front I just had 3x Austro-Hungarian Detachments in a line from Klagenfurt to Trieste. The AI Italians did quickly attack across the Isonzo in force, but then one Italian unit went up on to the new High Mountain hexes to try and get to Salzburg. The AI Italians had a little nibble at Trento but then quickly stopped as my German unit was doing them damage.

I just need to do one more trial where I defend the Isonzo at the border rather than at the Klagenfurt-Trieste line. I do think the AI scripting needs adjusting, if possible, so that it stops trying to get to Salzburg.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

Do you remember or can see what the Austro-Hungarian trench tech is at on that turn (and prior starting in June-July if you have that? Also, was Trento Fortress repeatedly assaulted or not prior to your August 14 1915 turn?

Austrian Trench Tech was on Tech 1, I think. I have deleted the game now. Yes, the Italians assaulted for 3 turns in total before taking Trento.

Oh..this is actually cool. So, the Italian AI is trying to reduce Trento Fortress and not just taking it out in an alpha strike. The Austrian (or CP player) can compensate this by having to make the decision to get an HQ nearby or not. Having an Hq attachment to that corp almost always helps its readiness and morale.

One other thing I've been thinking of, is the fact that Trento is an important NM town. As it stands right now, if its taken by the Italians...the Austrians lose that NM spot permanently. So, there is no reason to take it back as a town, and probably doubly if its a Fortress. Maybe, the dev's could consider making Trento a permanent NM spot, at decreasing value of course, like they have done at Verdun and other key spots. This incentivizes the contenders to duke it out over that real estate...like what happens at Nancy and Verdun now with a recent patch.

Thanks for the update btw...the fine tuning continues.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

New trial game. I put a German Infantry Corp unit in Trento late 1914 and another one in Bruneck in early 1915. On the Isonzo front I just had 3x Austro-Hungarian Detachments in a line from Klagenfurt to Trieste. The AI Italians did quickly attack across the Isonzo in force, but then one Italian unit went up on to the new High Mountain hexes to try and get to Salzburg. The AI Italians had a little nibble at Trento but then quickly stopped as my German unit was doing them damage.

I just need to do one more trial where I defend the Isonzo at the border rather than at the Klagenfurt-Trieste line. I do think the AI scripting needs adjusting, if possible, so that it stops trying to get to Salzburg.

Interesting indeed. So an Italian corp under the AI scaled that furthest high mountain hex..well, that's dedication. Their supply beyond that point should be bad unless they also breach the valley with the RR.
That means a race to the peaks...hmmmm.

I would bet the devs would be able to tweak this 'Salzburg' push that the Italians are doing..I looked into the editor about this, but at this time, haven't learned how to be competent with the scripting part of the editor. Still, progress is being made here.

I really like the high mountain changes we've done on top of making Trento a fortress. It just looks and feels better already without any major out-of- balance issues, at least, in my opinion, for PM's or 2 player hotseats. Its just the AI stuff that needs some tweaking I believe now.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

I started a full campaign hotseat playing both sides to test this Trento Fortress and Alta Adige High Mountain edit.
After doing 2 localized tests to find out if this works for MP,(and it seems to work very well), it seemed necessary to fit it into a full campaign milieu to find out how other theaters may affect The Alpine Front.

Overview as of Jan 1915: Germany did a France First and is stalled just short of the coast near Boulogne. Austria-Hungary is stalled in Serbia but besieging Nish. Russia hit Austria-Hungary hard, destroying 6 AH corps by Dec 1914 and have been stopped in the Carpathians by German intervention.

So this map of the Alpine Front is in January 1915 from the Entente's p.o.v.. Italy is neutral and made its demands on AH in November 1914. Austria-Hungary replied No to Italys demands in December 1914. Two AH corps were deployed on this front (they were rebuilt from the 'deadpile'). 3 detachments were deployed by event..and 1 detachment arrived up to the Trento sector from Triest earlier.
Austria-Hungary just achieved Trench Warfare 1, so the newly arrived corp in deployed in Trento Fortress has ent 2 out of 4 total. I piled on the chits into trench warfare for AH as I normally do for them in a MP.

When Italy gets close to War..I will post another screen shot. I want to see if the Italians can make a go on Trento...and if the Austro-Hungarians can hold it.

[stockwellpete]

I am convinced now that the AI Italians in my computer have never heard of Trieste or Fiume. Having tried various experiments with this Alpine front to encourage AI Italian assaults across the Isonzo, in the latest one I defended one row of hexes back from the border along the Klagenfurt-Trieste line. To give them some credit the AI Italians did initially attack all along that short 3-hex front, but their heaviest attacks were at Klagenfurt. Eventually they took the town - but then immediately turned northwards again towards Salzburg, Linz and Vienna. They need to drive at Trieste first not Salzburg and Linz.

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor
When Italy gets close to War..I will post another screen shot. I want to see if the Italians can make a go on Trento...and if the Austro-Hungarians can hold it.

What's the supply level of your AH units around Trento, and is that positioning just for the test or would you consider doing that in a real game?

[OldCrowBalthazor]

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor
When Italy gets close to War..I will post another screen shot. I want to see if the Italians can make a go on Trento...and if the Austro-Hungarians can hold it.

What's the supply level of your AH units around Trento, and is that positioning just for the test or would you consider doing that in a real game?

Bill,

This is the supply situation as of Jan 1915 for the Central Powers. The AH XVII corp in Trento is at readiness 64/morale 78.

Normally, in a MP game..I would have a German corp in Trento by February 15'.(I did deploy the new XVIII Ger corp that comes in January south of Munich to assist). It's probably better also to have at least 2 AH corps facing the Italians on the Isonzo sector initially. That way, in the future, if the Austro-Hungarians get the upper hand with Serbia, they can pull an Hq over to the Trieste area to strengthen their forces there.

I have saved the turns for each side for alternative deployments and attacks...but for this run I would like to continue with the campaign into the summer. The Italians really aren't that powerful, but in a MP match I'm sure determined assaults over the course of a season could make Trento Fortress fall. What I'm curious is how many casualties the Italians are willing to take to do that by themselves. Also...this is why I'm pushing my usual agenda playing both sides..who are hitting each other so hard that it will difficult for them to get involved heavily in this theater..which usually is a sideshow until later in the war.

Also..I have a friend who is going to be up for a week to hunker down..and we are going to start a hotseat match with this included..so we should get better data.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

June 5 1915 Italy goes to war.

This is the initial moves for Italy. In this game, sadly for the Entente, the 2 Italian HQs are a 2 and a 5 quality. (In some matches I have been lucky enough to get 6's for both that spawn upon the outbreak of war.) So..I will have to wait for the decision that comes up that options the Cadorna (6) HQ and decide whether to spend the MMP on it or not...sack one of these knuckleheads...or spend the money on research and/or unit strength.

No way can I make an attempt at Trento Fortress at this time. The KuK corp in the fort is entrenched at 4. We will wait and see as the Italians build up on the front.

My friend who goes by the online handle of Dark Taboo (among other names haha) will be playing the CP. So this test is going to be even more interesting. He will screenshot this area from his p.o.v. when necessary. We are going to save each turn so we can come back to test other options regarding having Trento Fortress and the High Mountain terrain as featured here.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Central Powers reaction to Italian war declaration. June 19, 1915.

A German corp is rotated into Trento Fortress. Germany has Trench Warfare 2, the corp is at entrenchment in the fort at 3 out of 5. Austria-Hungary is still at Trench Warfare 1 and the corp they had in there was at entrenchment 4.

The German corp has better morale and readiness...this may provoke an attack by the Italians, but they may not be fully prepared for it yet.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Alpine Front, July 3, 1915. 1st Battle of the Isonzo

Even though Italy hasn't build up its strength sufficient to take on Trento...a hasty assault on the Isonzo sector proved successful..giving about 50% damage to the defending AH corp deployed on the south flank of their line. I'm sure Austria-Hungary will have a response to this foray...which probably wasn't too wise.

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

This is the initial moves for Italy. In this game, sadly for the Entente, the 2 Italian HQs are a 2 and a 5 quality. (In some matches I have been lucky enough to get 6's for both that spawn upon the outbreak of war.) So..I will have to wait for the decision that comes up that options the Cadorna (6) HQ and decide whether to spend the MMP on it or not...sack one of these knuckleheads...or spend the money on research and/or unit strength.

Italy is scripted to receive the Duke of Aosta and Brusati, who have a rating of 5 and 2 respectively.

This will rise if Command and Control is successfully researched, so the former could arrive at 6, but Brusati couldn't.

Are you able to advise what the names of your HQs are in games when they have both arrived with higher ratings?

[OldCrowBalthazor]

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

This is the initial moves for Italy. In this game, sadly for the Entente, the 2 Italian HQs are a 2 and a 5 quality. (In some matches I have been lucky enough to get 6's for both that spawn upon the outbreak of war.) So..I will have to wait for the decision that comes up that options the Cadorna (6) HQ and decide whether to spend the MMP on it or not...sack one of these knuckleheads...or spend the money on research and/or unit strength.

Italy is scripted to receive the Duke of Aosta and Brusati, who have a rating of 5 and 2 respectively.

This will rise if Command and Control is successfully researched, so the former could arrive at 6, but Brusati couldn't.

Are you able to advise what the names of your HQs are in games when they have both arrived with higher ratings?

Can't remember but I thought I had two '6' HQ's on a former match..but I probably am mistaken.

This front is usually quiet till 1916..and its Germans usually making a go at Udine then beyond. Anyway..the next turn on this test they are 6 and 3 respectfully...and I will have to have Aosta into the hottest part of the front..which is turning into the Isonzo sector for the time being. Thats ok though for we can go back to May 15 at a later time and just test an AH corp in Trento Fortress.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Alpine Front July 10, 1915

The Austro-Hungarians counter attack the damaged Italian corp at Udine...but can't dislodge it. Another corp moves on down the valley from the north..and Udine is under siege.

Other news in Europe that will have a bearing here: Cetinje falls and Montenegro surrenders. Nish will probably fall next turn, and Serbia has had all convoy routes down for a few turns. Bulgaria is going to enter the War.

With this new and other favorable events...Austria-Hungary sent an HQ from the Serbian Front up to the Alpine Front. (my partner on this hotseat hasn't told me who it is lol)

[Dazo]

Looks good so far, thanks for the test OldCrowBalthazor .