The Western Front in 1914

[mdsmall]

There has been a lot of good discussions in this forum of the Italian Front and the Serbian Front and even the distant Caucasus Front, but very little about the central conflict of the war on the Western Front. What has been your experience with Germany attempting to carry out a version of the Schlieffen Plan in 1914? Is this an option that you sometimes attempt when playing the Central Powers? Or is the conventional wisdom now to have the Germans start operating units south against Serbia or East to deal with Russia right from the first turn? Grateful to hear others views.

[Chernobyl]

In my opinion if Germany sends all its corps against France (including the second wave of mobilization corps) and none to Serbia or Russia, then France has a tough time defending and needs to play perfectly to avoid unacceptable territory losses. However if Germany does this they will lose some NM objective or mine in the east. Germany needs at least a couple extra corps on turn 1 (whether these are railed or deployed initially, either one) to temporarily contain Russian cavalry and prevent them from darting into a NM or mine hex and that's just on turn 1.

And that's the bare minimum at the start. Germany needs to send more than that over the next few turns. So I don't think it's completely practical to go "all in" on France. You need some kind of forces in the east. But exactly how many and when is very pro and con. Even one extra corps in France helps. But it also helps in Poland.

I am still testing with Dazo but in my opinion as of now, Austria can do just fine in Serbia without any German assistance but can't go for a "quick kill" in Serbia without any German units. That is, if Austria deploys 2 armies to Serbia, Austria should win but it will take a while and the offensive to capture Nish and the mine may be delayed until 1915 depending on rolls and the weather. This is partly because there aren't enough bodies to defend the supply lines east of Belgrade, so Austria will most likely have to capture Belgrade instead of pressing the attack on Serbian corps, which delays Austria and gives Serbia time to reinforce and entrench. And partly because an extra German corps simply can attack a couple times and really put the hurt on a Serbian corps. It's all about destroying a Serbian corps ASAP in my opinion.

But that's just me. I know some people prefer to keep more detachments and corps in the east than I do, and some prefer to deploy both starting corps in France in order to maximize the western attack. Both of these strategies have their merits, and my strategy does have the downside that I have to sell technology on turn 1.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

France First bro. I still haven't been able to make a Russia First work right to my satisfaction in tests and never attempted it in a MP.
Of course...Germany has to deal with Russia...in 1915 on, but if the Western Entente is left off the hook in the west in 14', they will have forces in the Balkans and Middle East lickety split.

I also sell the Industrial and Airship tech to use the MMP's on the first turn to operate about 3 German Corps and the half strength marine to the East/South East (deployments classified haha), and buy the research back the next turn. In addition..the 2 infantry corps on the pre-move deployment is place in the east to face the Russians. The cavalry is placed in the west for Belgium.

[stockwellpete]

I always try and do a "Schlieffen" in SP, but I never have much hope of breaking through. I usually can knock out Belgium and then take Lille and Boulogne and then I try and settle things down on this front and switch my focus to Poland and Galicia. I have never done an "eyeballs out" Schlieffen so far. I guess I need to try it at least once.

[Christolos]

Have you seen this very interesting post by Dazo: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4924764?

The outlined strategy coupled with the 'feature' of not all attacks using 1 AP, as discussed here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... 2365533%3B, would seem like something worth exploring in the context of maximizing attacking France with a Schlieffen styled attack plan.

C

[ThisEndUp]

Can concur that hitting France and Belgium on turn one is necessary. Without it, the French get very uppity, and easily become a fatal threat. Not to mention knocking them out after the Russians are done in becomes that much harder.

[mdsmall]

Hi Christolos - no, I missed that piece by Dazo, as I usually only look at this board in this Forum. Many thanks for the steer - anyone interested in this topic should check out his "Schlieffen Plan Study".

I did follow the thread about not all attacks consuming 1 AP and researched it using the German invasion of Poland in 1939 in WiE. It works there and no doubt will work in this game too. It is particularly applicable in the opening move of a well resourced offensive when the attacker can afford to take some unexpected casualties by attacking without stopping to check the combat odds, in return for an increased chance of gaining more ground after combat.