In this, my penultimate Standalone Scenarios review, China responds aggressively to Indian fleet manoeuvres in its South China Sea backyard. It's an unsubtle, head-on confrontation between two powerful taskforces and you can play either side. I took the default and played as China.
The PLAN fields the carrier Liaoning, which has J-15 Flying Shark MRCAs and some Dauphin helicopters. Escorting her are a dozen destroyers and frigates with two subs screening ahead. You also have an oiler with the carrier and a spy trawler suicidally positioned next to the Indian fleet. A Cub AEW plane is aloft, but starts a couple of hours from Bingo fuel.
India also has an ex-Soviet carrier, the Vikramaditya, with a similar number of escorts, an oiler and a couple of subs. Vikramaditya's CAG consists of MiG-29s, along with a swarm of Helix and Sea King choppers.
Both sides follow the Soviet approach of having large numbers of long-range anti-ship missiles, so the scenario is always going to involve a massive duel in which you can only hope to have the better of the missile vs SAM exchanges. The Indians have a big advantage in their Brahmos missile, which is one of the scariest weapons I've faced in CMO. It has a range of 160nm to the Chinese YJ-83's 100 and travels at 1,600 knots, albeit slowing down on its final approach. This means that it can't be engaged by the older HQ-7 Crotale SAMs on four of the Chinese escorts. The other Indian weapons are standard cruise missiles in the 500-600 knot range, but most outrange the YJ-83. China has a few YJ-62s with 215nm range on the destroyer Haikou, but India is substantially going to get the first strike.
Another big Chinese weakness is in ASW. The Dauphin choppers don't even have sonobuoys and have to mess around using dipping sonar, which leaves them vulnerable to fighters, as the game won't let you cancel their use. Even when they get a contact, they have just one torpedo each and the Yu-7 isn't the most accurate. A lot of the Chinese ships have limited sonar range and the standard ASW torpedo (the selfsame Yu-7) only has a range of 2nm. By contrast, the Indians have decent ASW choppers to burn. Their ASW torpedoes have a 4nm range, but this still leaves them at a disadvantage agaisnt the Chinese subs, which have Yu-6 torpedoes with twice that reach.
In the air, the J-15 and MiG-29 are reasonably well-matched. The Chinese air-to-air missiles have a slight range advantage (50 to 45), but the MiG can out-turn the Flying Shark and also has an uncanny ability to present an imprecise target, of which more later.
Both sides have impressive SAM cover, with the Chinese destroyers Shijiazhuang and Shenyang mounting Gargoyles and the Wuhan Grizzlies. The Indians have a lot of Grizzlies and their own Barak 8, on the Kolkata-class escorts, is very high-performance for its 35nm range.
Both sides get a big VP bonus for hitting (not necessarily sinking) the other's carrier and correspondingly need to keep their own safe. My first thought as China was to get the Liaoning away to the rear, along with the oiler and one of the HQ-7 escorts, the Qingdao, for close escort. Any missiles would have to overfly my SAMs and CAP to reach her, though subs already behind me were a worrying thought.
I otherwise tried to group my three surface task groups together to get everything under the Gargoyle umbrella and improve attack co-ordination. The two subs adopted a cautious approach, just over the layer at Creep, waiting for a chance to fire missiles safely from distance. I kept radars off and used choppers and the Cub for recon, with a couple of J-15s on CAP.
Straightaway, I had a message that the Indians were about to attack. Not long afterwards, a Delhi-class destroyer recognised my spy trawler and wasted a couple of Switchblade missiles on her when guns would have done the job. Nothing I could do and 100VP lost. At least -100 was still Average.
Before long, missiles began to appear and the predicted mass duel began. As predicted, India had the advantage, with missile after missile coming in and only one advanced squadron of four enemy escorts in range for retaliation. There was little sense of being in control as the virtual dice rolled. I lost the escorts Shenzhen, Xiangfan, Zhanjiang and Wuhan (300VP each), three of them in one devastating Brahmos wave, along with two Dauphins (50 each) caught onboard and a couple of J-15s (100 each) in air combat. With SAMs defending their ships well (despite 16 missiles aimed at each), Indian losses were just 10 MiG-29s (75 each) and three choppers (50 each). However, a score 0f -700 was still Average and I had ships left.
As more Chinese ships got into range, the battle continued. The sheer number of incoming missiles suggested that the briefing had underestimated the size of the Indian fleet. Incidentally, it had also suggested using Krypton ARMs on the J-15s, but the re-arming time is as long as the scenario duration, so that was a non-starter. The Haikou was lost, but not before firing her YJ-62s. With the lead Indian squadron now low on SAMs, the destroyer Rajput and a Shivalik frigate were sunk for 350 and 250VP, respectively, with a chopper going down with her ship. Just as things were looking up a little, another wave of missiles sank the frigate Chaohu and her chopper (which was down for maintenance).
It didn't get any better. Two surviving MiG-29s made for my Cub. I tried to get her away, sent a pair of fighters to help, but they missed with their intercept attack and the fortunate MiGs proceeded to down the AEW plane for 200 points. They then continued an extraordinary run of luck by evading a half-dozen Gargoyle shots and escaping, all the missiles mysteriously going blind. I can only put this down to the fighters becoming imprecise targets, possibly due to enemy jamming. My fighters redeemed themselves a bit by shooting down a chopper that was getting too close to my SSN Shang.
This began a phase in which the Indian fighter cover was temporarily exhausted by losses and my own planes were able to snipe away at the choppers as far as enemy SAM cover allowed. This provided a steady drip-feed of VP.
Meanwhile, the last few Chinese escorts (those assigned to the CV at the start) got into missile range. The destroyer Linyi sank the third of the lead group of Indian ships, a Kolkata-class destroyer (Chennai), along with her chopper. The last of the squadron, the frigate Sahyadr, had by now obtained a sonar contact on the SSK Song and was trying to hunt her. She evaded several YJ-83 strikes, which I was now feeding-in in pairs to conserve ammo. Song turned at bay and fired her four YJ-82 missiles in self-defence, but the Sahyadr hit all of them on 64% chances with Grisom short-ranged SAMs. Destroyer Shijiazhuang finally got rid of her before she caught the sub.
Things were now evening-up and the score was +100. One of the Indian subs had revealed her position to the W by firing missiles, but my Dauphins predictably got to the location too late and dropped the ball despite much messing about with dipping sonar.
Conversely, enemy choppers were now swarming towards the Song, their courses suggesting that the AI knew exactly where she was evading to. I had one J-15 on station and she downed two of them with Python missiles and cannon, but bad dice spared a third. I'd scrambled my last two fighters, which had started the scenario loaded with YJ-83s and these just got there in time, clearing away two more choppers, then launching their missiles at the main Indian squadron. It was a forlorn hope and they all missed. The Flying Sharks cancelled the inevitable RTB and stayed on to put away two more choppers heading for the sub.
My surface fleet now engaged the Vikramaditya group, not helped by the carrier being hard to identify. In any case, it made sense to try to wear down the picket ships. With no retaliatory fire, pairs of YJ-83s sank the destroyer Delhi and damaged the frigate Tarkash. Shang chanced a four-missile salvo into the heart of the formation, finding the oiler Deepak instead of the carrier and fatally wounding her for a useful 500VP.
To my surprise, the Indians then started firing back as another Delhi-class ship's Switchblade missiles came into range. Helped by CAP, this lower-intensity strike was stopped fairly easily. However, the two wretched MiG-29s reappeared and again performed their trick of making me waste Gargoyle shots. Every missile went blind and I altered WRA to stop my ships firing the missiles at fighters.
With Qingdao arriving from carrier escort duty (which was now taken-on by the ships which were out of missiles), the battle continued. The destroyer finished the Tarkash and her chopper and then, with her last pair of YJ-83s, managed to hit the carrier, reducing her speed to 22 knots. This scored a decisive 3,500VP. Quitting while I was ahead, I withdrew all units, save for CAP.
This was a wise move, as the enemy still had Switchblades left and pairs kept coming. CAP shot them down. Reinforced, my J-15s then destroyed the two MiGs at the expense of one of their own. I had to cancel the infuriating RTB after the first engagement. Planes really shouldn't ever automatically go RTB when they have enough fuel and weapons left - it makes no sense.
Even then, with time running-out, it wasn't over. My choppers miraculously found BOTH Indian subs (I'd only believed there was one). One even managed to hit the Sindhushastra, but infuriatingly failed to sink her.
In a dramatic finale, the Song managed to ambush the Indian fleet, sinking the frigate Trikand with a six-torpedo spread. With mere minutes left and nothing to lose, I fired my eight remaining tinfish at the carrier at kinematic range, but the game ended while they were en route (I let it run afterwards and they missed anyway).
So it ended in a Chinese Major Victory with a score of +5,400. I lost 6 escorts, a spy trawler, 3 J-15s and 3 choppers, but destroyed 7 escorts, an oiler, 12 MiGs, 20(!) choppers and, vitally, hit the Vikramaditya. Overall, an unlikely but pleasing comeback.
I guess I should play it again as India, but this depends on motivation over the next few days. I must say I didn't enjoy the massive missile duel and am not sure I want to go through it again.
The Tiger and the Dragon 2019
Post descriptions of your brilliant successes and unfortunate demises.
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tylerblakebrandon
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RE: The Tiger and the Dragon 2019
Post by tylerblakebrandon »
Before I hit play I always adjust the doctrine settings for RTB to my preference. Sounds like you would prefer a Winchester setting rather than the loadout default which is commonly a Shotgun setting for BVR AAM loadouts.
RE: The Tiger and the Dragon 2019
Yeah, maybe I should do that. It would be nice not to have to, though....
Anyway, I steeled my nerve and played it again as the Indians. As I'd suspected, this is the easier option, mainly because their superior missile range (and quality) enables them to dictate the play, fighting and retreating as they wish.
As before, I made sure to get my carrier (which has NO SAMs), well out of the way, escorted by the two Delhi-class destroyers (which have shorter-ranged Switchblade missiles and can't participate in the initial duel) and accompanied by the oiler. The other carrier escorts were sent ahead at Flank to join the missile strike, with the frigate Talwar delaying to sink the spy trawler with gunfire (which she made VERY heavy weather of doing). Otherwise, I kept radars off as long as possible, used choppers for recon and stationed fighters to intercept incoming missiles.
The initial missile duel saw the van Chinese squadron of four escorts annihilated by their Indian counterparts, while a detached MiG downed the enemy Cub AEW plane. J-15s shot down two of my fighters, but the first wave of Chinese YJ-83s and 62s were all stopped.
The other Chinese ships then came-up and started firing YJ-83s from what must surely have been beyond their 100nm range. My van squadron were retreating at Flank by now, but kept pausing to 'evade' when incoming missiles were spotted until I altered their doctrine to prevent it. Enemy subs joined-in with YJ-82 launches, but I stopped all of these. The probably illegal YJ-83 shots sank the Rajput-class destroyer Ranvijay, but I otherwise got clear and fighters proved very useful in thinning-out the vampires.
My second squadron now came-up and concentrated on the main Chinese force containing the carrier, though it was impossible to distinguish which ship was which. I fired my Brahmos and Sizzler missiles two at a time, as this seems to be the most efficient way of consuming the trigger-happy AI's SAMs. In short, it was a massacre though, my luck being what it is, I managed to sink all five escorts and the tanker without scratching the carrier, which ploughed on regardless on her own. I could safely ignore the other three-ship Chinese squadron, which had already exhausted its missiles. The only blot was the loss of a pair of Krypton MiGs, who took a chance on their weird missile immunity holding and launched a combination strike/SAM-distraction run - their luck ran out.
Meanwhile, our choppers located the Song (sonobuoys really help) and sank her after a long and frustrating hunt which involved losing contact at least twice and scoring a non-fatal initial hit. Subs score 300VP. The Shang made a run at my ships, which accelerated away to a safe distance. A helicopter search for the SSN lost contact and returning Chinese fighters cost me a couple of choppers.
Hitting the unescorted carrier was a frustrating business. She still had decent short-ranged HQ-10 SAMs and countermeasures and these thwarted the squadron's last Sizzlers and four missiles launched by my subs. I tried to attack with a Krypton MiG, but had to abort when J-15s launched at the wrong moment. My subs tried to close, but the enemy were moving too fast (29 knots) for an intercept. Eventually, I got the Delhi into Switchblade range and her second salvo broke through. However, I then found that India DOESN'T get any VP for damaging the Chinese carrier (deliberate design or a bug?!). I hit the Liaoning again with a quartet of Kryptons (which her SAMs can't engage) late in the game, but this only slowed her to 27 knots and she could still operate aircraft. Who needs escorts?!
With the real-world time past midnight, I retreated all units and ran-down the clock. The AI made a pain of itself with desperate J-15 sorties, one of which cost it two fighters for two choppers which I was trying to RTB. Like the MiG-29, the J-15 is similarly difficult to kill with SAMs - really odd, as I haven't seen this phenomenon in other scenarios. I lost another chopper when it took-off on a previously-assigned ASW mission and the mission area just happened to be where the surviving Chinese ships were at the time (and I only realised the danger when it was too late).
So it finished as an Indian 'Minor Victory' with a score of 3,450. I sank 9 escorts, a sub, the oiler and the spy trawler and downed 3 J-15s and 10 choppers, losing a destroyer, 4 fighters and 6 choppers in return. It was therefore much more convincing than the Chinese Major Victory I'd scored earlier and the 3,500 points I should perhaps have got for hitting the carrier would have reflected this.
Overall, a high-octane scenario which favours the Indian side, though the points system means they'll struggle to do better than a Minor Victory. On this evidence, the modern Indian Navy is a formidable fighting force.
Anyway, I steeled my nerve and played it again as the Indians. As I'd suspected, this is the easier option, mainly because their superior missile range (and quality) enables them to dictate the play, fighting and retreating as they wish.
As before, I made sure to get my carrier (which has NO SAMs), well out of the way, escorted by the two Delhi-class destroyers (which have shorter-ranged Switchblade missiles and can't participate in the initial duel) and accompanied by the oiler. The other carrier escorts were sent ahead at Flank to join the missile strike, with the frigate Talwar delaying to sink the spy trawler with gunfire (which she made VERY heavy weather of doing). Otherwise, I kept radars off as long as possible, used choppers for recon and stationed fighters to intercept incoming missiles.
The initial missile duel saw the van Chinese squadron of four escorts annihilated by their Indian counterparts, while a detached MiG downed the enemy Cub AEW plane. J-15s shot down two of my fighters, but the first wave of Chinese YJ-83s and 62s were all stopped.
The other Chinese ships then came-up and started firing YJ-83s from what must surely have been beyond their 100nm range. My van squadron were retreating at Flank by now, but kept pausing to 'evade' when incoming missiles were spotted until I altered their doctrine to prevent it. Enemy subs joined-in with YJ-82 launches, but I stopped all of these. The probably illegal YJ-83 shots sank the Rajput-class destroyer Ranvijay, but I otherwise got clear and fighters proved very useful in thinning-out the vampires.
My second squadron now came-up and concentrated on the main Chinese force containing the carrier, though it was impossible to distinguish which ship was which. I fired my Brahmos and Sizzler missiles two at a time, as this seems to be the most efficient way of consuming the trigger-happy AI's SAMs. In short, it was a massacre though, my luck being what it is, I managed to sink all five escorts and the tanker without scratching the carrier, which ploughed on regardless on her own. I could safely ignore the other three-ship Chinese squadron, which had already exhausted its missiles. The only blot was the loss of a pair of Krypton MiGs, who took a chance on their weird missile immunity holding and launched a combination strike/SAM-distraction run - their luck ran out.
Meanwhile, our choppers located the Song (sonobuoys really help) and sank her after a long and frustrating hunt which involved losing contact at least twice and scoring a non-fatal initial hit. Subs score 300VP. The Shang made a run at my ships, which accelerated away to a safe distance. A helicopter search for the SSN lost contact and returning Chinese fighters cost me a couple of choppers.
Hitting the unescorted carrier was a frustrating business. She still had decent short-ranged HQ-10 SAMs and countermeasures and these thwarted the squadron's last Sizzlers and four missiles launched by my subs. I tried to attack with a Krypton MiG, but had to abort when J-15s launched at the wrong moment. My subs tried to close, but the enemy were moving too fast (29 knots) for an intercept. Eventually, I got the Delhi into Switchblade range and her second salvo broke through. However, I then found that India DOESN'T get any VP for damaging the Chinese carrier (deliberate design or a bug?!). I hit the Liaoning again with a quartet of Kryptons (which her SAMs can't engage) late in the game, but this only slowed her to 27 knots and she could still operate aircraft. Who needs escorts?!
With the real-world time past midnight, I retreated all units and ran-down the clock. The AI made a pain of itself with desperate J-15 sorties, one of which cost it two fighters for two choppers which I was trying to RTB. Like the MiG-29, the J-15 is similarly difficult to kill with SAMs - really odd, as I haven't seen this phenomenon in other scenarios. I lost another chopper when it took-off on a previously-assigned ASW mission and the mission area just happened to be where the surviving Chinese ships were at the time (and I only realised the danger when it was too late).
So it finished as an Indian 'Minor Victory' with a score of 3,450. I sank 9 escorts, a sub, the oiler and the spy trawler and downed 3 J-15s and 10 choppers, losing a destroyer, 4 fighters and 6 choppers in return. It was therefore much more convincing than the Chinese Major Victory I'd scored earlier and the 3,500 points I should perhaps have got for hitting the carrier would have reflected this.
Overall, a high-octane scenario which favours the Indian side, though the points system means they'll struggle to do better than a Minor Victory. On this evidence, the modern Indian Navy is a formidable fighting force.
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