Spying and Intelligence tech bonus

[mdsmall]

As I understand the rules, the 1% per turn bonus versus penalty in tech advance as a result of having a superiority in Spying and Intelligence is measured by comparing the S&I levels of the most advanced two Majors on each side. In most games that would mean the UK for the Allies (since they start with a chit on this tech) versus Germany.

Given that, is there any reason why either side would chose to invest in Spying and Intelligence for the other Majors on their side? It would seem that the only benefit is to get the modest benefit of having one more unit revealed on the map per turn. But given a choice, it would seem much more rational for the Allies to invest in keeping up the S&I level of the UK, versus spending MPPs to start investing in the S&I level of the USA.

The exception might be the USSR, which does not share tech with any other Allied Majors. Given that, it would seem that they have to measure their S&I levels versus Germany separately from the rest of the Allies, and thus they need to keep up on their own with German S&I advances in order to avoid suffering the 1% penalty.

Is this correct? Grateful for any corrections or further precisions.

[Dorky8]

YES - Brit/USA & Germany

NO - Russia

[Taxman66]

FYI, a country only gets a benefit if it's specific level is higher than all the opponents. This benefit would not extend to the countries allies;' said allies would compare their own level vs. the opponents.

For example:
1942, France conquered/Vichy, USSR & USA are both active.

UK lvl 2
US lvl 1
USSR lvl 0
FR lvl 0

GE lvl 1
IT lvl 0

In this situation only the UK gets a bonus.

[Dorky8]

there really aren't penalties right minimum research is 5%. opponent can just go higher

[Markiss]

I was always under the impression that each level of Intelligence gives +1% to every tech increase every turn. This makes it worth it to buy at least 1 level for most, if not all, countries.

Did this change?

[The Land]

My understanding was the same as mdsmall's. So I am now... confused!

[Dorky8]

If you look at the example Russia is at 0 and isnt hurt still 5%. You just don't want your opponent SI higher than you because they research higher (and breakout higher also I think). Brits + Germany start with a chit on S&I so really its a race between them, when allies I also buy for USA in case Brits cant afford it maybe breakout. Russia & Italy dont have the $ early to invest. Investing later leaves Russia & Italy way behind in the race to 3. So the only benefit is more spotting.

In the end Brit (maybe USA) and Germany make sure one another dont research higher. Very important research.

[mdsmall]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

FYI, a country only gets a benefit if it's specific level is higher than all the opponents. This benefit would not extend to the countries allies;' said allies would compare their own level vs. the opponents.

Hi - I don't think that is quite right as Section 9.2.5 of the rules says "only the Major on each side with the highest level affects Research progress".

From my re-reading of the rules, the Majors on your side only get the 1% Spying and Intelligence bonus if the most advanced Major on your side has an 1 level superiority in Spying and Intelligence versus the most advanced major on the other side. In practical terms, this usually means that the bonus only applies if the UK has 1 level higher than Germany in Spying and Intelligence, or vice-versa.

My question really was whether it is worthwhile as the Allies to invest in S&I for the USA and the USSR, in addition to the UK. Apart from the spotting benefits, I think the only reason why you would do that is if the UK could not afford the MPPs to compete with Germany in this tech and you decided to make either the USA or the USSR the leader on your side in Spying and Intelligence. There do not appear to be any game benefits to having two Majors on the same side investing in this tech, if you could allocate the same number of MPPs in advancing just one Major's tech level in this area.

[Taxman66]

The manual is not clearly written.

All I can say is that this subject has come up several times before (including by myself) and has been discussed at length.
I'm not very good at using the search function but if you hunt through the old (as in over a year old) threads you should be able to find them.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

The manual is not clearly written.

All I can say is that this subject has come up several times before (including by myself) and has been discussed at length.
I'm not very good at using the search function but if you hunt through the old (as in over a year old) threads you should be able to find them.

I was trying to figure out how to find the old threads, (over a year old). You had an excellent thread on S & I a few years ago and I was trying to find it again......

[Dorky8]

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... =&#4662956

Breakthrough % may have changed.

ORIGINAL: Dorky8

YES - Brit/USA & Germany

NO - Russia

[Hubert Cater]

Here are some threads that might be helpful:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4661678

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4662952

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Thanx Dorky8 and Hubert!