Nothing intuitive here, move along

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

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rustysi
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by rustysi »

ORIGINAL: juntoalmar

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Production is a nightmare

So I guess it's not working properly yet. Which make me think, shouldn't the production be fixed before putting effort in the AIO?

I mean, it is something much simpler than the AI. To begin with, the AIO should do its production, doesn't it? So, you need to fix production AI to have a working AIO, anyway.

I feel you could fix a smaller problem, faster, and that will benefit all the players now (not only those playing against the AIO in the future).

Just an opinion.

I'm just the FNG here, but it looks to me that it does work. Looking at the video tutorials #13,14.

Its definitely a convoluted process, and you may have to tell it a few times what it is you wish it to do, but it does seem to work in the end.

Or am I wrong?
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by rkr1958 »

ORIGINAL: rustysi
ORIGINAL: juntoalmar

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Production is a nightmare

So I guess it's not working properly yet. Which make me think, shouldn't the production be fixed before putting effort in the AIO?

I mean, it is something much simpler than the AI. To begin with, the AIO should do its production, doesn't it? So, you need to fix production AI to have a working AIO, anyway.

I feel you could fix a smaller problem, faster, and that will benefit all the players now (not only those playing against the AIO in the future).

Just an opinion.

I'm just the FNG here, but it looks to me that it does work. Looking at the video tutorials #13,14.

Its definitely a convoluted process, and you may have to tell it a few times what it is you wish it to do, but it does seem to work in the end.

Or am I wrong?
rustyi, here's my take on it. The current production/convoy system in MWiF has two learning curves. One modest and one steep. The modest one will generally get folks to the 90% optimum solution and the steep one will get you to 99%. A number, if not most, WiF players (i.e., of the cardboard and paper version) are use to getting to the 99 to 100% solution. Without climbing up the steep learning curve these players only get the 90% solution and are frustrated. Truth be told, sometimes the frustration is valid but sometimes the WiF player has been playing a rule incorrectly. There's no budge in MWiF when it comes to the rules. Or at least the rules as coded.
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

When playing MWIF, I frequently find that the program implements the rules much better than I do.

Now I have been playing WIF since 1985 and programming MWIF since 2004. I wrote the 3 volume players' manual (750+ pages), wrote all the picture and text tutorials, and recorded all but one of the training videos.

In addition, over the past couple of years, I have been playing against various opponents via NetPlay 10 to 30 hours a week.

But still, I run across places where the game 'knows' stuff that I have forgotten.

A recent example: artillery units cannot fire over alpine hexsides.

There seems to be at least one instance every week, where I expect to be able to do something and the program says: "no, no, no!"[:-] Or the program identifies an air unit that can fly a mission that I had not taken into consideration (defensive ground support - argh[:@]).

Players who learned on the board game version WIF, who take up MWIF are often surprised by how much they were not playing in perfect accordance with the written rules.
Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by Angeldust2 »

Exactly.
This makes MWIF the perfect learning tool even for cardboard WIF players!
And it keeps MWIF in its current incarnation valid, even with WIFCE (=RAW8) published two years ago. The advantages of MWIF far outweigh the thrill of the latest boardgame version, which IMHO did improve with only some, but not all, new features.
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: rkr1958
ORIGINAL: rustysi
ORIGINAL: juntoalmar




So I guess it's not working properly yet. Which make me think, shouldn't the production be fixed before putting effort in the AIO?

I mean, it is something much simpler than the AI. To begin with, the AIO should do its production, doesn't it? So, you need to fix production AI to have a working AIO, anyway.

I feel you could fix a smaller problem, faster, and that will benefit all the players now (not only those playing against the AIO in the future).

Just an opinion.

I'm just the FNG here, but it looks to me that it does work. Looking at the video tutorials #13,14.

Its definitely a convoluted process, and you may have to tell it a few times what it is you wish it to do, but it does seem to work in the end.

Or am I wrong?
rustyi, here's my take on it. The current production/convoy system in MWiF has two learning curves. One modest and one steep. The modest one will generally get folks to the 90% optimum solution and the steep one will get you to 99%. A number, if not most, WiF players (i.e., of the cardboard and paper version) are use to getting to the 99 to 100% solution. Without climbing up the steep learning curve these players only get the 90% solution and are frustrated. Truth be told, sometimes the frustration is valid but sometimes the WiF player has been playing a rule incorrectly. There's no budge in MWiF when it comes to the rules. Or at least the rules as coded.
warspite1

If it were only the case of ‘tell it a few times what it is you wish it to do” then there wouldn’t be a problem. But there is a problem.

Just look at the last few AAR I was involved in. Oil is a problem – and if it were just my oil then fair enough, but Germany, Italy and the CW all had problems and I wasn’t playing both sides! Incorrect calculation of oil, oil going missing and the convoy system have problems.

I would echo rkr1958 (who talks a lot of sense). Yes, the game can get you 90% of the way – and sometimes even 100% depending on what is happening in game at the time. To say “it does seem to work in the end” is a slap in the face to players (although I know you didn’t mean it in that way). Many is the time I’ve got ready for a session of MWIF only to find that my opponent sends an e-mail, pulling his hair out in frustration with the convoy system (and I am talking about two experienced players here) and stating there will be no play today as they need to walk away.

MWIF is a game where 1 or 2 build points can be absolutely crucial – and 1 or 2 build points over the game? Yes, crucial. They can buy convoy or fighters, pilots etc. or more (where saved for another turn). 90% sounds not too bad, but missing those points can make a lot of difference in MWIF.

And the general state of the system means that confidence in it is shot for many. So this leads to scenarios where something can’t be done – but the automatic response to this is that it must be the program, whereas, as rkr1958 says, it can sometimes be incorrect rule interpretation. I was guilty of this in a recent AAR. My only defence is that there were so many genuine issues going on, my assumption was that my inability to do something was the program’s fault… again.

As with any game, being beaten by someone who understands and plays the game better is how it should be – being beaten because you can’t get the program to do what the rules say it can – but your opponent can - is something else. In cases where games are friendly this can be got around by having your opponent check the calculations. But this is not ideal and not how it should be. Apart from the fact it can alert them to areas of potential exploit they might otherwise have overlooked, it is also an unfair drag on their time.

So for the present I am away from MWIF, playing a game that is very good, but not up to MWIF level (nothing is) but what makes up for anything lacking in the game, is more than made up for by the fact that I just play turn after turn after turn without the dread that at the end of the turn I’ve got to tackle convoys and production. No dramas, no tantrums, no frustration.

As Steve says above, the program is so good in reflecting the myriad of rules (and there are one or two rules to code!!) in so many ways. But production in a Strategic game? Well it's kind of important and the convoy, saving oil, and production phases generally needs some serious love and attention before the AI - after all, the AI needs a functioning system the same as the human players. I hope progress is made soon.



Now Maitland, now's your time!

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Centuur
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by Centuur »

In the past, I hated the production planning system. I never was able to get it right. Now, however, I have got a 100% score on production every time.

I let the program calculate things for me and there are only a few changes I have to make, which almost every time have to do with allocating factories to make sure build points are send off to allies using the route I want them to or making decision which oil to save where. I make all changes during the preliminary production planning phase. I don't close any major power on my side until all are correct. I use as few default settings and routes as possible. I almost never use override settings.

If things really are going wrong (when f.e. convoy lines are damaged without being able to repair everything), I will simply delete all override and default settings of all major powers involved and let the program calculate things for me. To restart with a "clean sheet" is a simple but very effective solution if that happens.

The final production planning for me is usually not more than stating: "it's correct" unless there has been some kind of naval combat during the return to base phase which caused convoy losses.

And finally: I never will make changes to the production planning forms in the impulses themselves. Simply because next impulse those SUB's or convoy raiders might sink your convoys anyhow. So making changes apart from the preliminary production planning phase is nothing more than a waste of time...

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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by warspite1 »

Hi Centuur

So would you be interested in assisting me? I will play a solo game. The purpose of this is not to play a complete game as such (the length of this 'game' would depend on what happens).

I would play through as both Allies and Axis - and I will try and mirror as much as I can, a recent game where there was problems with the oil calculation and losing oil.

I will post step by step screenshots of what I am doing and what results I am getting. Your input would be required to provide advice on what you do in this situation and how your explanation above translates into an actual 'game'.

Hopefully there will be minimal effort required on your part - I would just need your commitment to keeping this going as long as necessary - providing comment and support (not on the game, just on convoys, saving and production). Worst case, if something really goes wrong, I would send you the end of turn file to work on (but I am hoping that would never be the case).

You are saying you are getting 100% on production every time. If that is the case I really want to know and understand how this is being achieved because that is just not the experience I've ever had.

Would you be interested? If this works then maybe it can be used to help others.

If so, the version I have installed is called 4.2.0 (Debug). Do you have this or do I need to update?

Thank-you.

Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by Orm »

I am also getting 100% production every time (or elect to go forward with the wrong oil count in order to save the time it takes to redo the EoT). However, there are some elusive bugs in it that are extremely tricky to avoid. And sometimes it is a prolonged campaign to get it to 100%. And after you think you got it all you complete the end of turn only to find that an oil that were set to be saved were not saved. Then you have to go back and redo it all to get to 100% or just continue with the wrong oil count.
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by Orm »

And now I must correct myself. Once again extremely frustrated with resource, and oil, handling in MWIF. The Persian oil that is traded from Persia to CW is not included in CW production. It is listed in the traded oil resources, but not included in the specified list below. Argh! And at the moment it eludes me what needs to be done to get it included. I should be able to order the Persian oil to be saved in Egypt without the need of any CPs, and yet I can not give it any order at all since it is not in the CW resource list. However, it is listed as going to CW when looking at the neutral resources. [:(]

Now I need a break from MWIF. [:@]

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

A government is a body of people; usually, notably, ungoverned. - Quote from Firefly
Angeldust2
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by Angeldust2 »

I feel your pain !

But may I politely suggest, you file a regular bug report including a saved file in order to give Steve a chance to fix this specific bug? Probably you will do it anyway, as soon as your anger has declined a little bit ...
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by Centuur »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hi Centuur

So would you be interested in assisting me? I will play a solo game. The purpose of this is not to play a complete game as such (the length of this 'game' would depend on what happens).

I would play through as both Allies and Axis - and I will try and mirror as much as I can, a recent game where there was problems with the oil calculation and losing oil.

I will post step by step screenshots of what I am doing and what results I am getting. Your input would be required to provide advice on what you do in this situation and how your explanation above translates into an actual 'game'.

Hopefully there will be minimal effort required on your part - I would just need your commitment to keeping this going as long as necessary - providing comment and support (not on the game, just on convoys, saving and production). Worst case, if something really goes wrong, I would send you the end of turn file to work on (but I am hoping that would never be the case).

You are saying you are getting 100% on production every time. If that is the case I really want to know and understand how this is being achieved because that is just not the experience I've ever had.

Would you be interested? If this works then maybe it can be used to help others.

If so, the version I have installed is called 4.2.0 (Debug). Do you have this or do I need to update?

Thank-you.


Of course. I'm using 4.2.1.8 at the moment (available for beta testers only, but you are one).

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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by rkr1958 »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hi Centuur

So would you be interested in assisting me? I will play a solo game. The purpose of this is not to play a complete game as such (the length of this 'game' would depend on what happens).
Can't speak for Centuur but I'd be happy to provide what help I could. Flaws and all, including a maddening convoy/production system, I believe it's the best WW2 simulation/game out there and I would like to help in any way I can to getting you back playing it.

Maybe we could use your game and new thread as a workshop/clinic for MWiF convoy/production planning? Honestly, I'd be game to help and I assume there are others who would be willing to contribute. What do you think?
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by rkr1958 »

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hi Centuur

So would you be interested in assisting me? I will play a solo game. The purpose of this is not to play a complete game as such (the length of this 'game' would depend on what happens).
Can't speak for Centuur but I'd be happy to provide what help I could. Flaws and all, including a maddening convoy/production system, I believe it's the best WW2 simulation/game out there and I would like to help in any way I can to getting you back playing it.

Maybe we could use your game and new thread as a workshop/clinic for MWiF convoy/production planning? Honestly, I'd be game to help and I assume there are others who would be willing to contribute. What do you think?
Just saw that Centuur beat me to a response by 52-seconds!
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by Bamilus »

ORIGINAL: Centuur

In the past, I hated the production planning system. I never was able to get it right. Now, however, I have got a 100% score on production every time.

I let the program calculate things for me and there are only a few changes I have to make, which almost every time have to do with allocating factories to make sure build points are send off to allies using the route I want them to or making decision which oil to save where. I make all changes during the preliminary production planning phase. I don't close any major power on my side until all are correct. I use as few default settings and routes as possible. I almost never use override settings.

If things really are going wrong (when f.e. convoy lines are damaged without being able to repair everything), I will simply delete all override and default settings of all major powers involved and let the program calculate things for me. To restart with a "clean sheet" is a simple but very effective solution if that happens.

The final production planning for me is usually not more than stating: "it's correct" unless there has been some kind of naval combat during the return to base phase which caused convoy losses.

And finally: I never will make changes to the production planning forms in the impulses themselves. Simply because next impulse those SUB's or convoy raiders might sink your convoys anyhow. So making changes apart from the preliminary production planning phase is nothing more than a waste of time...


Maybe if someone can make a tutorial or something on this? Or maybe there is? I know from playing AGEOD games they had lots of quirks too but to get to the level of being able to understand the code to be able to even adjust it/plan around it. I really don't have time to invest that in MWIF since learning the rules is enough, but if people claim you can fiddle with production to make it work then it'd be nice to have a guide on how to do so.
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by Joseignacio »

ORIGINAL: rkr1958
ORIGINAL: rustysi
ORIGINAL: juntoalmar




So I guess it's not working properly yet. Which make me think, shouldn't the production be fixed before putting effort in the AIO?

I mean, it is something much simpler than the AI. To begin with, the AIO should do its production, doesn't it? So, you need to fix production AI to have a working AIO, anyway.

I feel you could fix a smaller problem, faster, and that will benefit all the players now (not only those playing against the AIO in the future).

Just an opinion.

I'm just the FNG here, but it looks to me that it does work. Looking at the video tutorials #13,14.

Its definitely a convoluted process, and you may have to tell it a few times what it is you wish it to do, but it does seem to work in the end.

Or am I wrong?
rustyi, here's my take on it. The current production/convoy system in MWiF has two learning curves. One modest and one steep. The modest one will generally get folks to the 90% optimum solution and the steep one will get you to 99%. A number, if not most, WiF players (i.e., of the cardboard and paper version) are use to getting to the 99 to 100% solution. Without climbing up the steep learning curve these players only get the 90% solution and are frustrated. Truth be told, sometimes the frustration is valid but sometimes the WiF player has been playing a rule incorrectly.

I have seen video tutorial 13 and I am 99% sure I don't make mistakes, I check all the routes and the convs, plan them, when the AI doesn't send them how I want, I TRY to edit them, following the video instructions, I can tell the difference between COMPUTED, DEFAULT and OVERRIDE and how to edit the two latter ones.

BUT IT SIMPLY DOESN'T work. The AI or AD (artificial Dumbness)Keeps using my Central Atlantic Convoys to reach North Athlantic in spite that there are more than enough conv in the East coast and I select those ones. It accepts the new DEFAULT but undoes another line that used to go through East coast and sends it again through Central Ath, just like if there were not enough in the route I propose - just, there are enough. [:-]


But not only this, sometimes it uses the Bay of Biscay when there are enough Conv in Feroes, vampirizing the convoyes assigned to South Africa resources or other african ones.

I consider it impossible, even following the tutorial teachings, and with the right amount of convoys not to lose 2 or3 of the resources just because of this. And this is not a minor thing in the long run.

I mean, 2 or 3 lost only after careful and several hours of correcting the madness the AD offers initially, where you can easily lose 4 or 5...

And this, after having to navigate though some absolutely not friendly instructions.When it would be much, much easier and much, much more efficient that the player told the computer where he wants his resources to go through one by one . Even though this may seem to take more time, I promise by far it ain't so. The computer could pop up a message if you want to pass one resource through a zone you dont have any more conv and that's all. No Artificial Dumbness needed.


I have seen 4 times the 13 tutorial (1 hour+), and used up more than 20 hours fighting the AD over the usage of convoys putting together all the times (yes, I am persistent) and NEVER could make those 2 resources to work even with the right convoys route. Forum Member RKR had the same experience (and he is not unskilled either), so he edits the saves to add conv to compensate (but they offer more prize for subs both in battle and sometimes in search) or adds oil or bp saved where they should have reached.

That, not to speak of when we have bugs like the Trade Agreements work in turn M/A but not in M/J without any change in the agreements, like it has happened with NEI oil for example.

It's really a shame. Not that there is this problem, games have bugs, but that it's not addressed and it stings even more being the solution so simple.


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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by rkr1958 »

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
ORIGINAL: rkr1958
ORIGINAL: rustysi



I'm just the FNG here, but it looks to me that it does work. Looking at the video tutorials #13,14.

Its definitely a convoluted process, and you may have to tell it a few times what it is you wish it to do, but it does seem to work in the end.

Or am I wrong?
rustyi, here's my take on it. The current production/convoy system in MWiF has two learning curves. One modest and one steep. The modest one will generally get folks to the 90% optimum solution and the steep one will get you to 99%. A number, if not most, WiF players (i.e., of the cardboard and paper version) are use to getting to the 99 to 100% solution. Without climbing up the steep learning curve these players only get the 90% solution and are frustrated. Truth be told, sometimes the frustration is valid but sometimes the WiF player has been playing a rule incorrectly.

I have seen video tutorial 13 and I am 99% sure I don't make mistakes, I check all the routes and the convs, plan them, when the AI doesn't send them how I want, I TRY to edit them, following the video instructions, I can tell the difference between COMPUTED, DEFAULT and OVERRIDE and how to edit the two latter ones.

BUT IT SIMPLY DOESN'T work. The AI or AD (artificial Dumbness)Keeps using my Central Atlantic Convoys to reach North Athlantic in spite that there are more than enough conv in the East coast and I select those ones. It accepts the new DEFAULT but undoes another line that used to go through East coast and sends it again through Central Ath, just like if there were not enough in the route I propose - just, there are enough. [:-]


But not only this, sometimes it uses the Bay of Biscay when there are enough Conv in Feroes, vampirizing the convoyes assigned to South Africa resources or other african ones.

I consider it impossible, even following the tutorial teachings, and with the right amount of convoys not to lose 2 or3 of the resources just because of this. And this is not a minor thing in the long run.

I mean, 2 or 3 lost only after careful and several hours of correcting the madness the AD offers initially, where you can easily lose 4 or 5...

And this, after having to navigate though some absolutely not friendly instructions.When it would be much, much easier and much, much more efficient that the player told the computer where he wants his resources to go through one by one . Even though this may seem to take more time, I promise by far it ain't so. The computer could pop up a message if you want to pass one resource through a zone you dont have any more conv and that's all. No Artificial Dumbness needed.


I have seen 4 times the 13 tutorial (1 hour+), and used up more than 20 hours fighting the AD over the usage of convoys putting together all the times (yes, I am persistent) and NEVER could make those 2 resources to work even with the right convoys route. Forum Member RKR had the same experience (and he is not unskilled either), so he edits the saves to add conv to compensate (but they offer more prize for subs both in battle and sometimes in search) or adds oil or bp saved where they should have reached.

That, not to speak of when we have bugs like the Trade Agreements work in turn M/A but not in M/J without any change in the agreements, like it has happened with NEI oil for example.

It's really a shame. Not that there is this problem, games have bugs, but that it's not addressed and it stings even more being the solution so simple.


So this is the great secret. All that info on how to set which sea areas your convoy routes take in the tutorial video 13 no longer works and hasn't worked for several versions now. The "steep" learning curve I refer to is not documented anywhere and, for me, pretty much self learned. There are some tricks, oh I mean techniques, that I and others have picked up along the way that work but aren't really documented anywhere.

For example, here's something that I've learned which seems to work and deals with, "sometimes it uses the Bay of Biscay when there are enough Conv in Feroes, vampirizing the convoyes assigned to South Africa resources or other african ones."

For the Canadian RPs that you desire to go through the Faeroes Gap leave them unset. That is, DO NOT set their default or override to any factory. Leave both default and override UNSET. For the African RPs that you want to go through the Bay of Biscay DO set their default to a UK factory (i.e., Leeds, London, etc.). What I believe MWiF does is route resources in order of 3 priorities: (1) trade, (2) default/override and (3) unset. What I've found is the African RPs will be routed to the UK through the Bay of Biscay before (I surmise) MWiF considers routing the unset Canadian RPs. Then when it finally gets around ot the unset RPs the only route available is through the Faeroes Gap. I've found that this works like a charm and takes me 5 minutes or less after I got the hang of it.

Also, to be clear, do NOT waste your time trying to set specific sea areas for a RP to travel. This no longer works and all you will do, I've found, is waste your time and get very frustrated. This function no longer works as "advertised" in the tutorial for several versions now.
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by warspite1 »

To Centuur and rkr1958

Thanks for the responses. I'll set something up in due course. I suspect I can rifle through the impulses pretty quickly so that we can get to the turn end production.

Thanks again.
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by wodin »

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Not too happy a camper here so far.

I know I'm new, but after two weeks I can't really navigate anything. As far as I'm concerned there's absolutely nothing about this system that's anywhere near intuitive, and I've been around games and industrial systems my whole life.

OK, rant over.[:D]

My feelings too. Though I think if the scale really appealed I'd give it the time needed but as it is it doesn't, add lack of an AI and I just don't have the desire to climb the learning mountain.
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by Centuur »

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
ORIGINAL: rkr1958
ORIGINAL: rustysi



I'm just the FNG here, but it looks to me that it does work. Looking at the video tutorials #13,14.

Its definitely a convoluted process, and you may have to tell it a few times what it is you wish it to do, but it does seem to work in the end.

Or am I wrong?
rustyi, here's my take on it. The current production/convoy system in MWiF has two learning curves. One modest and one steep. The modest one will generally get folks to the 90% optimum solution and the steep one will get you to 99%. A number, if not most, WiF players (i.e., of the cardboard and paper version) are use to getting to the 99 to 100% solution. Without climbing up the steep learning curve these players only get the 90% solution and are frustrated. Truth be told, sometimes the frustration is valid but sometimes the WiF player has been playing a rule incorrectly.

I have seen video tutorial 13 and I am 99% sure I don't make mistakes, I check all the routes and the convs, plan them, when the AI doesn't send them how I want, I TRY to edit them, following the video instructions, I can tell the difference between COMPUTED, DEFAULT and OVERRIDE and how to edit the two latter ones.

BUT IT SIMPLY DOESN'T work. The AI or AD (artificial Dumbness)Keeps using my Central Atlantic Convoys to reach North Athlantic in spite that there are more than enough conv in the East coast and I select those ones. It accepts the new DEFAULT but undoes another line that used to go through East coast and sends it again through Central Ath, just like if there were not enough in the route I propose - just, there are enough. [:-]


But not only this, sometimes it uses the Bay of Biscay when there are enough Conv in Feroes, vampirizing the convoyes assigned to South Africa resources or other african ones.

I consider it impossible, even following the tutorial teachings, and with the right amount of convoys not to lose 2 or3 of the resources just because of this. And this is not a minor thing in the long run.

I mean, 2 or 3 lost only after careful and several hours of correcting the madness the AD offers initially, where you can easily lose 4 or 5...

And this, after having to navigate though some absolutely not friendly instructions.When it would be much, much easier and much, much more efficient that the player told the computer where he wants his resources to go through one by one . Even though this may seem to take more time, I promise by far it ain't so. The computer could pop up a message if you want to pass one resource through a zone you dont have any more conv and that's all. No Artificial Dumbness needed.


I have seen 4 times the 13 tutorial (1 hour+), and used up more than 20 hours fighting the AD over the usage of convoys putting together all the times (yes, I am persistent) and NEVER could make those 2 resources to work even with the right convoys route. Forum Member RKR had the same experience (and he is not unskilled either), so he edits the saves to add conv to compensate (but they offer more prize for subs both in battle and sometimes in search) or adds oil or bp saved where they should have reached.

That, not to speak of when we have bugs like the Trade Agreements work in turn M/A but not in M/J without any change in the agreements, like it has happened with NEI oil for example.

It's really a shame. Not that there is this problem, games have bugs, but that it's not addressed and it stings even more being the solution so simple.



I've been there too, believe me...
Peter
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Bamilus
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RE: Nothing intuitive here, move along

Post by Bamilus »

Is there anything else to your knowledge that in the current version is very different than the manuals or tutorial videos?
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