[Deleted]

Don60420 · Post by **Don60420** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:21 pm

Vietnam by Victory Games. Playing it solo was impossible. It was made to be played by people sentenced to life in prison.

dox44 · Post by **dox44** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:44 pm

FOF is amazing. I will not argue that. Its on my table right now. It pushed off "A Time for Trumpets" last week...

ezzler · Post by **ezzler** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:15 pm

Vietnam by Victory Games

This is now being remade and reprinted by GMT Games. people are going ape for it. They love the idea.

For me, who played it solo, like everyone else, it is the most fantastic and tedious, frustrating, confusing, difficult and sometimes exciting but mostly boring game ever. Its a real tribute to the actual war.

The blurb for the remake boasts they are not planning on changing any rules.
No idea why that would be a plus. The combat, while very well developed and everything, is also endless, repetitive, unfulfilling, soul sapping, mostly pointless, search and destroy, attrition combats. That result in not much reward for the effort of taking them.

Its not on my radar, that's for sure. And I like the game.

ezzler · Post by **ezzler** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:16 pm

Most complex. probably Federation and Empire or World in Flames.

Deathtreader · Post by **Deathtreader** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:58 pm

David Bolt's DEATH OF EMPIRES trilogy WWI at the operational level. Not sure if they were all published or not but I had the first one in the series THE COSSACKS ARE COMING all about the Russian invasion of East Prussia in WWI. Tannenberg, Gumbinnen et al.

2 editions and several rounds of errata exceeding the very lengthy combined standard and special rules sets of the original edition. Tracks for this that and you name it. I can already feel the headaches coming back...

Having said that... this game system would be perfect for a digital environment.

Rob.

springel · Post by **springel** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:28 pm

The best way to play complex games, I found, was with a large team.

In the early nineties we played large scenario's with large teams, like Terrible Swift Sword, or the Battle of Trafalgar with all ships in miniatures, and when you only had a single small portion of the force you could really get involved in a local fight with global consequences.

warspite1 · Post by **warspite1** » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:20 am

ORIGINAL: ezzler

Most complex. probably Federation and Empire or World in Flames.

warspite1

I second that emotion! I haven't met a World In Flames player yet that hasn't admitted to have been playing rules incorrectly!!

Orm · Post by **Orm** » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:44 am

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: ezzler

Most complex. probably Federation and Empire or World in Flames.
warspite1

I second that emotion! I haven't met a World In Flames player yet that hasn't admitted to have been playing rules incorrectly!!

Well, we started playing WIF as teenagers, with limited knowledge of the English language. So we didn't pick an automatic US entry chit at the end of the turn. And were bewildered why US never entered the war. We were hooked though. [:)]

warspite1 · Post by **warspite1** » Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:29 am

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: ezzler

Most complex. probably Federation and Empire or World in Flames.
warspite1

I second that emotion! I haven't met a World In Flames player yet that hasn't admitted to have been playing rules incorrectly!!

Well, we started playing WIF as teenagers, with limited knowledge of the English language. So we didn't pick an automatic US entry chit at the end of the turn. And were bewildered why US never entered the war. We were hooked though. [:)]

warspite1

That is NUTS!!

So lets get this right:

- You didn't speak English that well
- You set about trying to learn a complex game with a what? 120 odd page rule book
- The game is quite unlike anything I've played before so I guess it was the same for you then
- The rules aren't even written in good English - they were written by a bunch of Aussies [:D]

[&o]

Orm · Post by **Orm** » Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:51 am

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

warspite1

I second that emotion! I haven't met a World In Flames player yet that hasn't admitted to have been playing rules incorrectly!!

Well, we started playing WIF as teenagers, with limited knowledge of the English language. So we didn't pick an automatic US entry chit at the end of the turn. And were bewildered why US never entered the war. We were hooked though. [:)]
warspite1

That is NUTS!!

So lets get this right:

- You didn't speak English that well
- You set about trying to learn a complex game with a what? 120 odd page rule book
- The game is quite unlike anything I've played before so I guess it was the same for you then
- The rules aren't even written in good English - they were written by a bunch of Aussies [:D]

[&o]

Yep. You got it right. I had bad school English, and so did the others. I was below average in foreign languages in school. And English was no exception. And I hadn't really read anything in English voluntary before. I know I bough a book in English before that. But I also recall that I gave up on page two. [:D]

Orm · Post by **Orm** » Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:58 am

ORIGINAL: warspite1
- The game is quite unlike anything I've played before so I guess it was the same for you then

Had been to the game store before and longingly looked at all the strategy games but couldn't allow myself to spend all that cash on a game I had no idea how it would work out. No one to play with. Had played risk before. And chess. A year before I joined the local chess club.

Anyway, when I stand watching the games. Looking longingly at a Vietnam game, in walks two members my age from the chess club. We only met at the club before and had only talked chess with each other. And that day we became life long friends, and we got World in Flames. That evening I sat up the invasion of Poland and tried to make sense of it.

We also began playing role playing games and to do that we had to move over to English written games. Not enough material in Swedish.

RFalvo69 · Post by **RFalvo69** » Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:37 am

ORIGINAL: Orm
Yep. You got it right. I had bad school English, and so did the others. I was below average in foreign languages in school. And English was no exception. And I hadn't really read anything in English voluntary before. I know I bough a book in English before that. But I also recall that I gave up on page two. [:D]

I was a "meh" student in English until the biggest library in the area opened a English section. I bought the first book of the "Dragonlance Chronicles" and I was hooked. Then at the beginning of the Summer this "Dungeons & Dragons" thinghie arrived (the self-contained "Red Box")... [:D]

Next year my English teacher went crazy when my knowledge of the language skyrocketed. I started using arcane words like "nocturnal" (I remember clearly when I translated "I got a night call" with "nocturnal call" instead, only to get question marks around my choice of words). She tried to find out how I "cheated" but failed. At the end I simply told her how I had started reading fantasy books and how that had helped.

Having said that, the book that I loved the most in high-school was James Joyce's "Dubliners" - so the Balance of the Force was, at the end, restored for the teacher...

Orm · Post by **Orm** » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:24 pm

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

ORIGINAL: Orm
Yep. You got it right. I had bad school English, and so did the others. I was below average in foreign languages in school. And English was no exception. And I hadn't really read anything in English voluntary before. I know I bough a book in English before that. But I also recall that I gave up on page two. [:D]
I was a "meh" student in English until the biggest library in the area opened a English section. I bought the first book of the "Dragonlance Chronicles" and I was hooked. Then at the beginning of the Summer this "Dungeons & Dragons" thinghie arrived (the self-contained "Red Box")... [:D]

Next year my English teacher went crazy when my knowledge of the language skyrocketed. I started using arcane words like "nocturnal" (I remember clearly when I translated "I got a night call" with "nocturnal call" instead, only to get question marks around my choice of words). She tried to find out how I "cheated" but failed. At the end I simply told her how I had started reading fantasy books and how that had helped.

Having said that, the book that I loved the most in high-school was James Joyce's "Dubliners" - so the Balance of the Force was, at the end, restored for the teacher...

That was the first book in English that I read. Although I had begun with role-playing games before I started to read fantasy novels in English.

RangerJoe · Post by **RangerJoe** » Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:48 pm

I also have a hard time with English. I can understand most of it but . . . [;)]

BeirutDude · Post by **BeirutDude** » Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:43 am

Gulf Strike, by VG!

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:08 am

[Deleted by Admins]

jhyden · Post by **jhyden** » Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:24 am

RE: What's the most complicated board wargame you ever played?

Or tried to play.

I'd have to say the avalon hill game called 'third reich'. my gaming friend's friend introduced him to the game so we both learned it together. this was waaaay back in the early eighties. lately, the most difficult computer game (based on a board game) is world in flames. I'm currently going through the manuals and tutorials. i may take a gaming break from studying and share some gaming time with either witp.ae or close combat for awhile. not sure yet.

best wishes to all

bayonetbrant · Post by **bayonetbrant** » Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:10 am

ORIGINAL: ezzler

The combat, while very well developed and everything, is also endless, repetitive, unfulfilling, soul sapping, mostly pointless, search and destroy, attrition combats. That result in not much reward for the effort of taking them.

I'm not sure you could've more accurately captured the realism of ground combat in Vietnam if you were trying to

gamer78 · Post by **gamer78** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:52 pm

Board game or not it is the Factoria I believe. Bit of an engineering project. From what I see from 'reddit' still in development. I've purchased mounths ago still didn't figure out how to play.
Other than that Shadow Empires lately.

wodin · Post by **wodin** » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:48 pm

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

ORIGINAL: Orm
Yep. You got it right. I had bad school English, and so did the others. I was below average in foreign languages in school. And English was no exception. And I hadn't really read anything in English voluntary before. I know I bough a book in English before that. But I also recall that I gave up on page two. [:D]
I was a "meh" student in English until the biggest library in the area opened a English section. I bought the first book of the "Dragonlance Chronicles" and I was hooked. Then at the beginning of the Summer this "Dungeons & Dragons" thinghie arrived (the self-contained "Red Box")... [:D]

Next year my English teacher went crazy when my knowledge of the language skyrocketed. I started using arcane words like "nocturnal" (I remember clearly when I translated "I got a night call" with "nocturnal call" instead, only to get question marks around my choice of words). She tried to find out how I "cheated" but failed. At the end I simply told her how I had started reading fantasy books and how that had helped.

Having said that, the book that I loved the most in high-school was James Joyce's "Dubliners" - so the Balance of the Force was, at the end, restored for the teacher...

Very similar to my story. Couldn't read until I was 7. However once I could I loved reading. At age of 11\12 it was Lord of the Rings that really blew my mind.