test on type 93 long lance and torpedo CLS

jiajia1 · Post by **jiajia1** » Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:56 pm

about 10 years ago I played a game named "navyfield". pitty I did not get to know witp at that time. I did not play any game since then until I found witp ae.

I still remember got impressed by torpedos all over the screen lauched by kitakami, it is one of the most horrible existence in the game.

morejeffs's post about tpye 93 torpedo remind me the 2 CLs.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4990445

so I did a test.

IJN: kitakami+oi(40x1 torpedo) + 9 DD (8x2 torpedo)
USN: 2CL + 9 DD

test 1: in the day phase, battle start from 11000 yards they got each other, in the end all torpedos lauched.
IJN: sink 1 cl + 1 dd, 2 dd heavily damaged, 2 dd medium damaged, all by guns
USN: sink 1 cl, 1 dd heavily damaged, 4 dd medium damaged, most by guns, only 3 torpedos got hit and sink 1 cl.

test 2: in the night phase, USN got IJN 23000 yards, battle start from 11000, in the end all torpedos lauched.
damages to both side are minimal. no torpedo got hit! And night belongs to japanese at least they think that way?

jiajia1 · Post by **jiajia1** » Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:33 pm

of course in the history the 2 CLs got no use during the war and converted to other format since no "decisive fleet combat" ever happened. but I realy expect there would be some kind of chances to let those strategic ideas shine.

RangerJoe · Post by **RangerJoe** » Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:43 pm

Think if they would have followed the Heavy Cruisers (CAs) after the battle of Savo Island and launched their torpedoes into the invasion fleet . . . [X(]

Ian R · Post by **Ian R** » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:39 am

ORIGINAL: jiajia1

of course in the history the 2 CLs got no use during the war and converted to other format since no "decisive fleet combat" ever happened. but I realy expect there would be some kind of chances to let those strategic ideas shine.

One problem with the "torpedo cruisers" was that a bomb hit on deck could cause multiple secondary explosions, and they (and ship-borne catapult float planes) were a fire risk, and the bane of damage control parties.

The RN landed a lot of cruiser torpedo mounts and aviation equipment for this reason.

morejeffs · Post by **morejeffs** » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:06 am

I would think the tests would be greatly affected by US radar.... While we remember the Japanese as studs during the night, that really only held until late 1942
For example
Battle of Empress Augusta Bay
or
Battle_of_Cape_St._George

If the IJN CLs did achieve surprise though......Potentially a very ugly day for the USN

last week I got to see Kaiten and the insides of a long lance

jiajia1 · Post by **jiajia1** » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:17 am

ORIGINAL: Ian R

ORIGINAL: jiajia1

of course in the history the 2 CLs got no use during the war and converted to other format since no "decisive fleet combat" ever happened. but I realy expect there would be some kind of chances to let those strategic ideas shine.

One problem with the "torpedo cruisers" was that a bomb hit on deck could cause multiple secondary explosions, and they (and ship-borne catapult float planes) were a fire risk, and the bane of damage control parties.

The RN landed a lot of cruiser torpedo mounts and aviation equipment for this reason.

Agree.
during assaulting Truk on Feb 1944. Aikoku Maru (AMC in the game) became the most tragedy ship. hit by torpedo lauched by a TBM made the biggest explosion(loaded with many type 95). on board was 68th naval garrison unit (not in the game), 900+ died. sunk in 2 mins. even TBM did not survive the explosion.

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:07 am

Those torpedoes sunk CA Mikuma when hit.

Kull · Post by **Kull** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:50 am

ORIGINAL: jiajia1

during assaulting Truk on Feb 1944. Aikoku Maru (AMC in the game) became the most tragedy ship. hit by torpedo lauched by a TBM made the biggest explosion(loaded with many type 95). on board was 68th naval garrison unit (not in the game), 900+ died. sunk in 2 mins. even TBM did not survive the explosion.

Actually it arrived in Truk carrying the 66th Naval Garrison Unit (diverted from the original destination of Eniwetok), which is in-game. The linked source also says the unit destroyed during the Hailstone attack was the 1st Amphibious Brigade, so it's possible the men of the 66th were ashore and lived to starve another day.

jiajia1 · Post by **jiajia1** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:18 am

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: jiajia1

during assaulting Truk on Feb 1944. Aikoku Maru (AMC in the game) became the most tragedy ship. hit by torpedo lauched by a TBM made the biggest explosion(loaded with many type 95). on board was 68th naval garrison unit (not in the game), 900+ died. sunk in 2 mins. even TBM did not survive the explosion.

Actually it arrived in Truk carrying the 66th Naval Garrison Unit (diverted from the original destination of Eniwetok), which is in-game. The linked source also says the unit destroyed during the Hailstone attack was the 1st Amphibious Brigade, so it's possible the men of the 66th were ashore and lived to starve another day.

Mikuma

can you please post it here? I can not access the page.[&o]

jiajia1 · Post by **jiajia1** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:34 am

found a japanese official record with Aikoku maru:

1944年2月17日-04:10|ﾐｸﾛﾈｼｱ/日本/ｱﾒﾘｶ|商船三井|昭和19年|<ﾐｸﾛﾈｼｱ･ﾄﾗｯｸ島空襲>日本海軍特設運送船(雑用船
)｢愛國丸｣(大阪商船,10437t)6:50,ﾐｸﾛﾈｼｱ･ﾄﾗｯｸ島夏島東沖合[N07.22-E151.56]で米第58機動部隊艦載機の空
爆(爆弾4発命中)により沈没(437名が戦死;19440331,除籍)

said it was hit by 4 bombs. 437 died. (ship crew and relatives of soldiers usually not counted in)

-----------------
another record:

1944年2月17日-00:15|ﾐｸﾛﾈｼｱ/日本/ｱﾒﾘｶ|日本郵船|昭和19年|<ﾐｸﾛﾈｼｱ･ﾄﾗｯｸ島空襲>日本海軍特設巡洋艦｢赤城丸
｣(日本郵船,7389t)9:10､ﾐｸﾛﾈｼｱ･ﾄﾗｯｸ島北水道付近(07ﾟ50'N-151ﾟ25'E)で第58機動部隊艦載機による空爆によ
り炎上.9:55､機関停止後火薬庫が誘爆.10:30,放棄.10:47,沈没(788名死亡→3.31,除籍解傭)

this record sais ammunition explode caused by bombing, 788 died (still, only navy men KIA), but the name should be Akagi maru. (also AMC 23 days delay of reinforcement)

jiajia1 · Post by **jiajia1** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:32 am

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Those torpedoes sunk CA Mikuma when hit.

an official record only mentioned heavily damaged, then sunk after all crew abandoned the ship.

1942年6月6日 24:00|ﾊﾜｲ/ｱﾒﾘｶ/日本| ||昭和17年|<ﾐｯﾄﾞｳｪｰ海戦>14:00,日本海軍最上型重巡洋艦｢三隈｣米艦上
機と海兵隊機の攻撃をうけ大破､総員退去の後､ﾐｯﾄﾞｳｪｰ北西方600浬､30ﾟ00'N-176ﾟ34'Eの地点に沈没(8.10,除
籍)

But I also read somewhere that a SBD crashed on a turret during first wave and got hit 5 bombs in second wave which caused torpedo explosion.

BTW，torpedos on Mikuma not only sink 1 IJN CA but also 5 IJA + IJN amphibian ships (including the only LSD) if I was right.
And the poor LGEN was onboard the LSD.

Kull · Post by **Kull** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:31 am

ORIGINAL: jiajia1

can you please post it here? I can not access the page.[&o]

Here's an excerpt. It comes from a dive site that I've found to be very reliable:

On 16 January 1944 Aikoku Maru departed Kure for the last time. The next day she arrived at Tokyo Bay. On 21 January 1944 the Aikoku Maru departed Tokyo Bay and arrived at Yokosuka the same day. Here she embarked personnel of the 66th Naval Guard Unit (629 men), 1,200 mines, dynamite, artillery shells, food and construction materials. These were all originally destined for Brown Island, Eniwetok, Marshall Islands.

On 24 January 1944 she departed Yokosuka and arrived at Tateyama the same day. On 25 January 1944 she departed Tateyama for Truk in convoy with 11,930-ton submarine depot ship Yasukini Maru and the Akagi Maru escorted by destroyers IJNS Michishio and IJNS Shiratsuyu and the minelayer IJNS Nasami.

At about 2 am on 31 January 1944 when 300 miles north-west of Truk, USS Trigger (SS-237), skippered by Lieutenant Commander Robert E. Dornin, attacked the convoy. Dornin fired three torpedoes by radar at the largest ship and the submarine's Executive Officer, Lieutenant Edward L. Beach, fired three other torpedoes from the bridge at the nearest destroyer using the Target Bearing Transmitter (TBT). The TBT's torpedoes ran erratically and missed. The three fired by radar also missed the big ships, but one hit and sank the Nasami.

When still on the surface, the Trigger turned away from a destroyer in the convoy and fired four stern torpedoes at her. They all missed. Masked by her heavy diesel exhaust, the Trigger headed away on a reciprocal course to the destroyer. Unaware that her opponent was on the surface, the destroyer dropped depth charges.

Dornin soon made a high speed "end-around." At about 5 am he fired five torpedoes in a surface radar attack on the largest ship. The Yasukuni Maru was hit by two torpedoes and sank about 30 minutes later at N9º 15' E147º 13'. There were 43 survivours. The Aikoku Maru escaped undamaged.

On 1 February 1944 the remaining vessels in the convoy arrived at Truk. Soon after she departed Truk for Brown Island, Eniwetok, Marshall Islands (also reported as Wake Island) with troop reinforcements, but was forced to abort due to American aircraft activity. I believe that she arrived at Pohnpei instead on 14 February 1944 but could not discharge completely her cargo of soldiers and supplies. The next day she left for Truk, arriving in the lagoon late on 16 February 1944.

All of the Combined Fleet's capital ships based at Truk had departed in anticipation of an American air raid as there were some surveillance flights over Truk a few days earlier. The Aikoku Maru began loading ammunition almost immediately so she would be able to depart for Rabaul as soon as possible. Troops of the 1st Amphibious Brigade aboard her were apparently crammed into their makeshift billets.

On 17 February 1944, the first day of "Operation Hailstone", the Aikoku Maru was anchored off the channel between Eten and Dublon Islands. This was one of the main anchoring points in Chuuk Lagoon and was close to the San Francisco Maru and Nippo Maru as well as many others. A photograph taken very early shows the Aikoku Maru lying untouched facing the east.

At dawn, on the first day of the raids, planes from USS Intrepid (CV-11) attack the Aikoku Maru. The first bomb hit the officers' wardroom galley and started a fire that spread quickly. She took three more hits by bombs.

At about 0815 the Aikoku Maru was attacked by Avenger dive bombers from USS Essex and USS Intrepid. At the same time, an Avenger TBM-1C (serial number BN 25270) from the USS Intrepid, piloted by Lt James Erwin Bridges, with crew Robert Ellis Bruton and James Albert Greem were approaching the ship from wave height. While the TBM-1C was attacking, the ship was hit in the front section of the ship by two bombs dropped from planes from the USS Essex. These bombs had a devastating impact, causing the Aikoku Maru to violently explode. Lt Bridges' (incorrectly referred to as Briggs in some reports) plane had just released its torpedo and was making good its escape, pulling up to clear the ship it had just attacked, when the other planes' bombs exploded. Lt Bridges, his plane and crew were destroyed. It is also possible that the plane was damaged by anti-aircraft fire and crashed into the bridge, falling into the hold causing the explosion. Whatever happened, it is known that Lt Bridges' Avenger did not return to her ship.

Another report says that a Mark 13 aerial torpedo hit her No. 1 hold and set off ordnance that sheared off the entire foreship. However, I do not believe that this report is correct.

To say that the resulting explosion was massive is to understate the situation. Two photographs taken by the attacking American aircraft show a huge "nuclear-bomb" type mushroom cloud rising over the wreck. Within a few seconds the cloud had risen thousands of feet in the air. Within 60 seconds of the fatal attack, the Aikoku Maru sank with the loss of not only all lives on board, but also the lives of some men on adjacent smaller boats and barges. It is not known how many died, but it is estimated that at least 450 men were lost. Another report says that virtually all of the ships' crew including Captain Nakamaruo and 945 sailors, passengers and men of the First Brigade, died in the explosion.

RangerJoe · Post by **RangerJoe** » Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:02 am

That sounds a little like when the AE Mount McKinley went boom.

test on type 93 long lance and torpedo CLS

test on type 93 long lance and torpedo CLS

RE: test on type 93 long lance and torpedo CLS

RE: test on type 93 long lance and torpedo CLS

RE: test on type 93 long lance and torpedo CLS

RE: test on type 93 long lance and torpedo CLS

RE: test on type 93 long lance and torpedo CLS

RE: test on type 93 long lance and torpedo CLS

RE: test on type 93 long lance and torpedo CLS

RE: test on type 93 long lance and torpedo CLS

RE: test on type 93 long lance and torpedo CLS

RE: test on type 93 long lance and torpedo CLS

RE: test on type 93 long lance and torpedo CLS

RE: test on type 93 long lance and torpedo CLS