Heading East into the Soviet Union

[carlkay58]

T15 Air Losses:

The LW have heavy fighter losses but they have caused heavy losses to the Soviets.

[carlkay58]

T15 Production:

The truck pool is still above 10K so I am happy with that considering my supply situation. There are 179K Axis Generic (aka Hiwi) manpower in the pool so that will be a nice boost next year. You can see the toll the fighter losses have been having on my production. There are no fast recovery for them.

[carlkay58]

T15 VPs:

I am high enough with the VPs that the war will continue into 1942 now. I do have 14 turns to make another 200 VPs for a Sudden Victory at the end of the year. Leningrad and Moscow are in play (kind of anyways) and that would be about 100 of the necessary points for the Sudden Victory. I can see maybe Leningrad falling before the end of the year but Moscow is too much of a long shot and I would still need 100 VPs beyond them so the southern front will have to really move to gain it. But it is possible to do if things fall my way. But I seriously doubt that.

[carlkay58]

T15 Files:

[CaesarCzech]

Imho you are well positioned so that the late 1942 Early 1943 victory seems possible.

[Nix77]

Carl, these saves are really nice material, thanks for sharing them! I'm trying to get some kind of grip on the logistics systems, and with limited time to spend playing, these saves are really helpful to dig through and make own tests!

That said, I don't really understand how your logistics network actually can support your spearheads so well? To me it'd seem really counterproductive to have so many priority 4 depots all over the Soviet Union? I actually checked it out, you have 121 priority 4 depots in Soviet lands alone, and they are storing an insane amount of freight. Didn't calculate it all together, but only in Brest-Litovsk - Lvov - Vinnitsa area there's 250k+ tons of freight stored in depots going nowhere. It's very likely a good practice to have the depots set up along the main lines of advance, and maybe even store some freight on them even if they're not close to front, but this seems like a case of excessive hoarding from the rear area quartermasters

The rail lines are all easy green and yellow, armies all seem to be more than well supplied, the Panzer Groups are getting almost double the freight they need even when on offense, so this all leads me to think if the axis logistics level is really working correctly in the current version? Carl's advance is following approximately historical speed; shouldn't the rail lines be strained, with supply shortages at least in some of the front sectors? Instead I'm seeing 170000 tons of freight sitting idle on Przemysl-Vinnitsa rail alone, enough to supply the whole OKH command chain for more than a month. Carl is doing a fine job, but there's something fishy going on in the logistics department don't you think?


EDIT: I was actually thinking that on the Freight screen in Logistics Report, the "Supply Lost" wasn't reduced yet from the "Supply Received" number, but I think it actually is. So for example 2nd PzG had supply need of 1983 tons, but received a whopping 3473 tons!

[Nix77]

I'm also wondering why the Smolensk - Vyazma rails aren't more strained since there's 2PzG, 3PzG and 9A all operating in that bulge, and they received more than 12000 tons of freight in supplies and replacements this turn. Some of the units draw from Vitebsk rail, but still the rail usage seems really low in that area with two full panzer groups concentrated there?

EDIT:
3rd Panzer seems really under-utilized, you could probably add at least two corps from 4A and 9A (to benefit from the assault status? I think having the assault HQs filled to the brim (with some room for regiment splitting) is a sound strategy. They have upgraded command limit, so commanding four corps with 3-4 divisions each would be optimal.

[Jajusha]

Your fighter losses are heavy, sure, but so is your per turn production. 2 or 3 turns resting and they will be in full strength.

Buuuuut, the hs-126 recon, talk about a deathtrap, and they are also the majority of your recon groups. Not sure how long you will be able to keep flying them

[Repsol]

The infantry armies seems to be suffering somewhat with regards to supplies but it does not look all that bad. The panzer groups seems to be having a real nice time in old russia...
Is this a result of the HQ/depot-priority settings i wounder ? A further question is...is this WAD ? Should the player be able to allow the panzergroups to 'race around' like this ? It is far from historical atleast i belive...

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: Repsol

The infantry armies seems to be suffering somewhat with regards to supplies but it does not look all that bad. The panzer groups seems to be having a real nice time in old russia...
Is this a result of the HQ/depot-priority settings i wounder ? A further question is...is this WAD ? Should the player be able to allow the panzergroups to 'race around' like this ? It is far from historical atleast i belive...

Most of Carl's infantry armies are on Priority 2, that's why they're getting lower supplies. 9A is P4 and 11A is P3.

I'm hoping that having 120 Priority 4 depots in Soviet territory in October isn't the go-to logistics strategy I estimated that Carl's depots in Soviet territory are storing 600k+ freight on turn 15. Total ground+air need currently is around 40k+. Of course replacements etc. can raise that considerably, but 600k is enough for 10+ turns, which is kind of crazy. And these are only the depots in conquered Soviet territory.


Carl, have you been using the AI depot placement or manual placement? AI placement is actually cost effective (it can place up to 10 with a cost of 5AP) if you're planning on having lots of depots.

[Jajusha]

ORIGINAL: Repsol

The infantry armies seems to be suffering somewhat with regards to supplies but it does not look all that bad. The panzer groups seems to be having a real nice time in old russia...
Is this a result of the HQ/depot-priority settings i wounder ? A further question is...is this WAD ? Should the player be able to allow the panzergroups to 'race around' like this ? It is far from historical atleast i belive...

They are at their limit thought, doesn't matter if they are supplied if they can't get more then 60% of their TOE

Plus the truck numbers aren't that much better. 7k in pool, but his units are missing 12k trucks.

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: Jajusha

They are at their limit thought, doesn't matter if they are supplied if they can't get more then 60% of their TOE

Plus the truck numbers aren't that much better. 7k in pool, but his units are missing 12k trucks.

Whoa, that's true! 9th PzD has three(!) PzIII ready and no mechanized elements at all.

And am I reading this correct... the PzDivs are missing almost 1800 medium tanks from the lineup, have 232 of them in pool & transit, and are producing only 50 of them per turn? Seems quite grim to me!

[Nix77]

The starting number for missing medium tanks on T1 is -817, so that number has raised with over 1000 tanks... Carl has lost around 550 PzIII tanks, that sounds like a pretty high number to me?

After this I'm going to be reluctant to drive my PzDivs more than 100 miles per turn, keeping them on high CPP all the time

[Repsol]

ORIGINAL: Jajusha

ORIGINAL: Repsol

The infantry armies seems to be suffering somewhat with regards to supplies but it does not look all that bad. The panzer groups seems to be having a real nice time in old russia...
Is this a result of the HQ/depot-priority settings i wounder ? A further question is...is this WAD ? Should the player be able to allow the panzergroups to 'race around' like this ? It is far from historical atleast i belive...

They are at their limit thought, doesn't matter if they are supplied if they can't get more then 60% of their TOE

Plus the truck numbers aren't that much better. 7k in pool, but his units are missing 12k trucks.

The 2nd and 3rd panzergroup divisions seems to be really well of when it comes to tanks (unless the 3.reg 3.pzd and 2+3.reg 4.pzd have been disbanded or something...i don't see them on the list.

1st panzergroup seems to be far worse off. I guess this comes from priority settings.

2nd and 5th panzerdivisions are fairly new arrivals.

I had a look at the reinforcement screen but it does not seem like these divisions have recieved any particular reinforcments recently to bring them up to these numbers. The panzer battalions are arriving in november it seems.

At the begining of october typhoon would kick off [:)]

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Nix77

The starting number for missing medium tanks on T1 is -817, so that number has raised with over 1000 tanks... Carl has lost around 550 PzIII tanks, that sounds like a pretty high number to me?

After this I'm going to be reluctant to drive my PzDivs more than 100 miles per turn, keeping them on high CPP all the time

I do a similar supply network but not everything level 4 as Carl does.

Ya, the game is a Marathon not a race(although there are certain racing elements for certain things). Being a marathon need to have a measured approach on what you need to accomplish. Most advances, not all, I will try and leave 20 or more MP's. Refitting a depleted Division usually takes a few turns even on a depot with an HQ. So have to plan accordingly.

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I do a similar supply network but not everything level 4 as Carl does.

Really, that many depots? Wouldn't 5-8 hex intervals on depots be enough, priority on size 2+ railyards? What's the advantage of storing huge amounts of freight on rail lines far from the front?

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Nix77

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I do a similar supply network but not everything level 4 as Carl does.

Really, that many depots? Wouldn't 5-8 hex intervals on depots be enough, priority on size 2+ railyards? What's the advantage of storing huge amounts of freight on rail lines far from the front?

Similar but not that many depots. I space my depots about 6 hexes apart. When turn 7/8ish comes around I will show what I do in my game.

Storage closer is always nice. Less far to travel on the trains from rail yards. At lease that is my thinking on the matter. My first game I used the AI supply feature and I got hosed. Took that system over around turn 9 and implemented a system of storage from NSS all the way to the front and improved my overall supply tremendously.

[Bamilus]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Nix77

The starting number for missing medium tanks on T1 is -817, so that number has raised with over 1000 tanks... Carl has lost around 550 PzIII tanks, that sounds like a pretty high number to me?

After this I'm going to be reluctant to drive my PzDivs more than 100 miles per turn, keeping them on high CPP all the time

I do a similar supply network but not everything level 4 as Carl does.

Ya, the game is a Marathon not a race(although there are certain racing elements for certain things). Being a marathon need to have a measured approach on what you need to accomplish. Most advances, not all, I will try and leave 20 or more MP's. Refitting a depleted Division usually takes a few turns even on a depot with an HQ. So have to plan accordingly.

How do you do encirclements if you leave 20mp?

[carlkay58]

Yes my supply net is rather strange but I leave you with this: the rear depots have been saving up freight and supplies which I have not really needed as of yet. But when the bad weather hits - next turn as a matter of fact - then that supply is closer to the front and easier to ship forward. You guys will love my turn 16 below.

Yes all of my troops are beginning to hit the wall in regards to strength. PG 2 is probably the worst of them as they have yet to really be able to pull back and recover either replacements or CPP. That will matter in the long haul.

I probably will be able to put together an impressive 42 and possible Sudden Victory in that period - that at least is my hope.

But now on to turn 16!

[carlkay58]

T16 Soviet Attacks:

So having mentioned that the Soviet AI has been fairly passive suddenly they launch 19 Deliberate attacks against my forces. The results are six Retreats and the rest Holds. They are concentrated in the Leningrad and Moscow areas.