Taming the Tiger or Slaying the Bear......loki100 (Axis) vs Speedy (SU)

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Whatever air is at Rzhev and Vyazma, I'm guessing LRAC bombers, best to fly them to bases near Moscow and get your fighters to those two locations. You want them forward. I'm not even sure the fighters at Voskresensk can cover any bomber units. I do agree with HLYA that you are a bit light in the LB department. If you have a shortage, you could always transfer one full DBAD over from LRAC to help out. If you really want that 215th ShAP to behave like a bomber, maybe re-assign that to your 10th SAD which already has your IL-2s. Optionally then move the I-153s of 123 IAP to 43rd IAD to consolidate your vintage fighter ensemble. You will want to get those regiments upgraded when you can.

As an aside it seems the LR Bomb command is kind of pointless except for the laser guided night bombing since they take up SOOOOO much space at the limited AF's on offer and can't fly in daylight without massacre?

As a general rule, the deeper you fly across enemy hexes, the more damage you absorb from enemy fighters as they have increased reaction time. I'm attacking ground targets week 1, but just on the forward edge of the battle area to minimize the risk of interception. Now a human opponent can run an AS mission in these areas if you get too predictable and then this won't work so well, but otherwise it does pay to hit some targets on the edges.

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

I don't know how much more I could put of anything out there as there isn't enough AF's[:D]

There's this scrap dealer I know in Tblisi. Maybe I could find his phone number for you. [;)]

LOL. Why put them there? I always assumed it was either better in combat or in the National Reserve for experience gaining/training?

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain




You put Air on all fronts?

I have yes

Personally I concentrate on two areas and slowly expand with the Soviets. Normally I concentrate @ Leningrad T1 & T2. Then Moscow area T2 & T3 depending on if I can get my darn HQ's from the stupid pocket I let the other fronts be as they may because they aren't life threatining. If you know what I mean. Then if the Germans don't go for Leningrad it is easy to redeploy. But that is just me.

[:)]

Once more....why? I have the planes to fly and as per my above doctrine) I try to focus on upgrading my planes to latest models and if low morale/experience they go in NR BUT otherwise we have the Commands out there so why not deploy them for use. I've made successful counter-attacks in all sectors and they often have GS so we know it can't be detrimental[;)]

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Whatever air is at Rzhev and Vyazma, I'm guessing LRAC bombers, best to fly them to bases near Moscow and get your fighters to those two locations. You want them forward. I'm not even sure the fighters at Voskresensk can cover any bomber units. I do agree with HLYA that you are a bit light in the LB department. If you have a shortage, you could always transfer one full DBAD over from LRAC to help out. If you really want that 215th ShAP to behave like a bomber, maybe re-assign that to your 10th SAD which already has your IL-2s. Optionally then move the I-153s of 123 IAP to 43rd IAD to consolidate your vintage fighter ensemble. You will want to get those regiments upgraded when you can.

As an aside it seems the LR Bomb command is kind of pointless except for the laser guided night bombing since they take up SOOOOO much space at the limited AF's on offer and can't fly in daylight without massacre?

As a general rule, the deeper you fly across enemy hexes, the more damage you absorb from enemy fighters as they have increased reaction time. I'm attacking ground targets week 1, but just on the forward edge of the battle area to minimize the risk of interception. Now a human opponent can run an AS mission in these areas if you get too predictable and then this won't work so well, but otherwise it does pay to hit some targets on the edges.

Understood and it's my experience also. Hence why I say what can LR Bomb Command really do? They fly far = they die, they fly without escort they die

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve




I have yes

Personally I concentrate on two areas and slowly expand with the Soviets. Normally I concentrate @ Leningrad T1 & T2. Then Moscow area T2 & T3 depending on if I can get my darn HQ's from the stupid pocket I let the other fronts be as they may because they aren't life threatining. If you know what I mean. Then if the Germans don't go for Leningrad it is easy to redeploy. But that is just me.

[:)]

Once more....why? I have the planes to fly and as per my above doctrine) I try to focus on upgrading my planes to latest models and if low morale/experience they go in NR BUT otherwise we have the Commands out there so why not deploy them for use. I've made successful counter-attacks in all sectors and they often have GS so we know it can't be detrimental[;)]

"Quantity vs Quality"

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve




As an aside it seems the LR Bomb command is kind of pointless except for the laser guided night bombing since they take up SOOOOO much space at the limited AF's on offer and can't fly in daylight without massacre?

As a general rule, the deeper you fly across enemy hexes, the more damage you absorb from enemy fighters as they have increased reaction time. I'm attacking ground targets week 1, but just on the forward edge of the battle area to minimize the risk of interception. Now a human opponent can run an AS mission in these areas if you get too predictable and then this won't work so well, but otherwise it does pay to hit some targets on the edges.

Understood and it's my experience also. Hence why I say what can LR Bomb Command really do? They fly far = they die, they fly without escort they die

This made me laugh, but is so true too

That is why I came up with another action for LR command which I hope to test in a few turns. Yes, same thing I used it for in WITE1. But will have to wait on that one from me

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
That is why I came up with another action for LR command which I hope to test in a few turns. Yes, same thing I used it for in WITE1. But will have to wait on that one from me

Please, not another Soviet player with a Ploesti fetish. [8D]

If that is the case, I look forward to the carnage.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
That is why I came up with another action for LR command which I hope to test in a few turns. Yes, same thing I used it for in WITE1. But will have to wait on that one from me

Please, not another Soviet player with a Ploesti fetish. [8D]

If that is the case, I look forward to the carnage.

He already did. Maybe he is setting up for another I LOVE big numbers

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

Understood and it's my experience also. Hence why I say what can LR Bomb Command really do? They fly far = they die, they fly without escort they die

So fly the same distances the Pe-2 and SB-2 do, and add in some escorts where needed.

Interdiction removes admin movement bonus. If you aren't sure what that is, it's in the manual.

[Speedysteve]

Lol I know what that is. I’m not a total noob[8D]

[M60A3TTS]

Neither am I, and there's no lack of stuff I didn't know that new players show me all of the time. We're always learning!

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Neither am I, and there's no lack of stuff I didn't know that new players show me all of the time. We're always learning!

I'm the "BIGGEST" noob of all!!! So I have you both beat! But I am not scared of trying things(like disbanding Soviet Corps HQ's in WITE2, LOLOLOLOL)

[Speedysteve]

Well I can definitely learn that I do know. Right now each new week of the war means I learn stuff....just like Real Life Soviets 😉 anyway....got turn 7 to do for the next few hours at least [8D]

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Neither am I, and there's no lack of stuff I didn't know that new players show me all of the time. We're always learning!

well when I put up my T7 post there is going to be one very impressive self-inflicted foul up ... all I'll say here is I will have no credibility to offer any sentient opinions as to how to use the logistics system [:(]

[loki100]

T5 – 20 July 1941

So, lets record the bad things the Soviets did

Exhibit #1 – routed a Pzr Regiment – to be fair not exactly unexpected but it looks like they have effectively abandoned Smolensk to its fate.



Numerous instances of cutting off my spearheads, and a lot of this sort of thing.



The more serious point is all this starts to add up, that is a fair bit of armour that has to rest regardless of CPP/supply considerations and ideally needs to be pulled back west to be closer to my depots.



While I have plenty of manpower, replacing tank losses is not that easy. That only shows current production and the active pools but I have virtually no obsolete stocks to draw on.




Not much to say about the air war. Soviets have pulled back a lot and I have no desire to create additional supply problems. So only a few low intensity recon missions over the likely sectors where I'll move up and the rest on GS.

AGN.

Was surprised to take Talinin without any resistance – not least its a good port for supply and some advanced air group basing.

1 Pzr Corps rested, around Pskov, the other took Novgorod. Helpful that the infantry are now arriving

Couldn't get the rail repair to Pskov but it will be next turn. Leave it as a super-depot till I deal with the Luga line (if I manage to deal with the Luga line).



AGC

3 PG has split up – decided to push LVII corps north, its not great terrain but this might also be hard to cover – most of what I'm encountering is shattering or routing on a hasty attack. If this pays off, it puts pressure on Rzhev much earlier than a conventional post-Smolensk advance.

The rest is in action at Smolensk, I've written off any time bonus here so its a place to do damage to the Soviets were they are not falling back. Elements of 9 A will be in action here next week.




2 PG has disengaged from Smolensk. In the end you can't carry on bypassing strong collections of Soviet formations but you can once or twice. Bryansk (and Orel/Tula) is quite a prize and the terrain is not too bad – again its a pressure point that the Soviets have to cover.

One corps is resting and infantry cleared Mogilev.

Not shown but 4A is moving towards Gomel. Nothing impressive but again the Soviets need some response and there is the longer term reward once you reach the Desna.



1PG has now swung south of Kiev, the infantry have started breaking down the immediate defences.

I've left the FBD at Proskurov as a one-turn super depot, it'll repair to Vinnitsa next turn once the movement penalty lifts. These one turn pauses can really pull a lot of freight forward.



Nothing remarkable here, have reached Odessa – but no idea what lurks there. I'll set up naval interdiction next turn and have deployed the Baltic air group to this sector.



Losses are worsening as the ratio of combat:movement changes. Some decent pockets that turn but none of any value for next turn.



No real change to the OOB situation, added 18A to the assault list (same logic as for 17A, mainly CPP regain). While the air war is quiet, does seem like a lot of the VVS is actually on the map – in fact generally the Soviet reserves look to be very low.



Soviets carry on supplying me with their spare trucks.

[loki100]

T6 – 27 July 1941

Ok, lets stick to the familiar listing and careful analysis of the bad things the Soviets did

Partisans must be on the list?



Not just cutting off my spearheads but also making them retreat ... and destroying even more tanks.

I'm glad I left GS on, esp as the next battle was a narrow hold.



And more cutting things off, fortunately my approach here is to let 1 Pzr Corps rest while the other attacks – and the infantry are reaching the front lines.



Still not much happening in the air phase, but the redeployed naval air cut off Odessa to the sea – looking at the counter there is not much of a commitment to defending the port.



Anyway, generally a frustrating turn – if slightly predictable. AGN encounters a cat's cradle of Soviet formations on the Luga.

My basic logic is I have to fight, I suspect that routed/badly damaged Soviet units are going to struggle to repair, but clearly I can't just rely on attrition. At least I'll have infantry available next turn.

Pskov will be functioning as a super-depot next turn.

De-motorised the infantry divisions I have been using on this sector – not worth the AP cost given that I am now committed to having to fight if I want to make any more gains.



Another rather mheh sector. Low level partisan effort starts, have sent some extra units to the relevant theatre so hopefully it comes under control. Infantry starting to arrive and Smolensk surrounded.

Probe toward Bryansk was a failure but I think given the Soviet deployment a direct attack towards Vyazma may pay off better.

Not shown but made some more gains with LVII Pzr, some Soviet defences but mostly fairly weak. Predictably, terrain is as much a problem as any Soviet units.



Usual pattern of rest one Pzr Corps, use the other 2. Infantry available next turn, unless the Soviets abandon the Dneipr line. Letting the units ear-marked for taking Kiev have a final rest to maximise CPP.

Given the speed of the Soviet retreat I have a lot of infantry sat in the last hex I controlled at the turn start. May as well have them as fresh as possible for when sustained fighting actually takes place.

I'm used to having 6 and 17A pretty much fought out by T10, here while 1 PG is starting to fray the infantry are basically fresh, could set up some interesting dynamics in the early Autumn.



Better here, as above Odessa is not well defended so should fall next turn.



Losses still fairly light but becoming a bit worried at my tank casualties. I've now lost almost 10,000 trucks (but that is balanced by 10.000 captured trucks), also am producing 2,900 a turn.



Supply situation still working out. 4 PG is my most marginal formation.



But this is rather worrying – far too early for the Soviets to be over 3m.



At least the weather is staying ok.

[Richard III]

Those PD and PG Rgts. "retreats" in your game, generated by Massed Red Army combined units mirror my VS the AI game ( set at 100 ) where massed Red Arty, Mech. & Tank (+ air) Divisions forced 3 not isolated PD/PG Rgts. retreats at T6.

That seems.................

[loki100]

you have to be pragmatic (both vs AI and human) from about T4, regiments that are exposed are likely to get attacked (& quite likely to lose). So the key is to factor that into your decision making, if the Soviets want a hex back (or simply to do the damage that a retreat creates), mostly they can.

So in turn if you can't pay the price, make sure the defense is at least a division or don't risk being too exposed.

I like it, it makes advancing with the axis less a sequence of secure steps (as #1 often became) and more a set of gambles for both sides, and generally makes 1941 more dynamic. The same comes up in 1944-45 with the Axis, you are looking for the chance to hit over-extended Soviet units as they can be out of action for 2-4 turns - but equally both sides have to push the pace a bit so take the risks.

[Speedysteve]

What I'd also add is it's realistic. Anyone who's read reports on the Smolensk battles will know this....

[Speedysteve]

Afternoon Comrades,

North:

Following the recent breaking of Axis communication lines near Novgorod it was a turn of consolidation and fortifying for my Men north of Novgorod. I didn't order any attacks here during this week as the enemy positions seemed too strong.

The only actions of note are due to the heroic efforts of some engineers we have more airbases to use up here and more of our modern planes have been allocated to the region.

In addition an old friend, of mine, Nikolai Vatutin has arrived to lead one of my Fronts up here.