Beware: naval invasion from Ijsselmeer

[ncc1701e]

A naval invasion from the Ijsselmeer. I was not even knowing it was possible...
Protect your air units in the area...

[Harrybanana]

My guess is that you are playing ComradeKorps. Who else would build a French Landing Ship.

[ncc1701e]

Absolutely, see here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4984193

[Lascar]

That should not be physically possible since it is separated from the sea by a dike.

In 1932 the Zuiderzee was closed off by the Afsluitdijk, a 32-kilometre (20 mi) dyke connecting Friesland and Noord-Holland on either side of the Zuiderzee. The Zuiderzee was no longer a sea inlet and was renamed IJsselmeer (Lake IJssel). The continuing flow of fresh riverwater soon flushed out the saltwater. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IJsselmeer

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: Lascar

That should not be physically possible since it is separated from the sea by a dike.

In 1932 the Zuiderzee was closed off by the Afsluitdijk, a 32-kilometre (20 mi) dyke connecting Friesland and Noord-Holland on either side of the Zuiderzee. The Zuiderzee was no longer a sea inlet and was renamed IJsselmeer (Lake IJssel). The continuing flow of fresh riverwater soon flushed out the saltwater. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IJsselmeer

I agree. I think during the War the Germans might have broken the Afsluitdijk to reflood the area to hinder the Allied advance. Does anyone know if this is true? But even so it would not have been feasible for landing craft to have navigated the Axis controlled mouth of the river. This would be like German landing craft sailing up the Thames to make a direct assault on London.

[stjeand]

I do not think it should be possible...

If so...the USSR might get crazy on those rivers.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: stjeand

If so...the USSR might get crazy on those rivers.

Why? Anythink like this in Russia?

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

I agree. I think during the War the Germans might have broken the Afsluitdijk to reflood the area to hinder the Allied advance. Does anyone know if this is true? But even so it would not have been feasible for landing craft to have navigated the Axis controlled mouth of the river. This would be like German landing craft sailing up the Thames to make a direct assault on London.
[/quote]

The Germans did flood as much of Holland as they could in late '44 and it wouldn't have been difficult to blow that dyke.

Actually the Thames as far as London could easily have been navigated by german naval forces, and the Thames is very small compared to the biggest rivers in the USSR. Ditto the Kerch Straights which the Germans could sail through in earlier versions of this game, ignoring the defences on both sides.

And then there are some huge rivers in China to get Comadrejakorp over-excited.

[stjeand]

And then there are some huge rivers in China to get Comadrejakorp over-excited.

Because the transport sailed up a river.

If you can do that then all of Russia would not be safe.

The USSR would have to garrison every river mouth to keep German transports out.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

This kind of stuff annoys me, and I have been playing MP matches both on the computer and on the table for decades. Seen opponents pull stunts like this..and I call it out for what it is...eXploit. Its not gamey...its a cheat.

I must be old school..because when I discover holes in a rule or an exploit in an MP in any game...I refrain from doing it..and tell my opponent about too.

There...that's my three cents on this matter.

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: stjeand



The USSR would have to garrison every river mouth to keep German transports out.

In RL that is what was done by all, which is why there was no invasions up any rivers beyond the level of an occasional raid.

@ OldCrow, cheating is something that is dishonest such as reloading or with real toys knowingly moving a unit further than it can reach etc

This is a gamey exploit because the game allows it. If I had found it, I would not use it but I would send a bug report.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

@ OldCrow, cheating is something that is dishonest such as reloading or with real toys knowingly moving a unit further than it can reach etc

This is a gamey exploit because the game allows it. If I had found it, I would not use it but I would send a bug report.

Hmmm..perhaps my rhetoric was a bit, lets say, harsh. Ok...what I just saw on this thread is not cheating..but really, really, Really Gamey. So...I stand corrected. [:D]

[ComadrejaKorp]

My sincere apologies to any rival who was offended when I disembarked here, I never received a formal complaint, I was unaware that it was not possible.

I appreciate the history lessons, not so much the morality ones.

[Harrybanana]

I don't think ComradejaKorp did anything wrong. The only reason he was able to invade those hexes is because they were deliberately designated as "beach" hexes. So Alvaro is the one who believed (and perhaps still believes) that those hexes are invadable. I personally don't believe he is correct, but it is his game and unless he changes it or the players are using a House Rule than I have no problem with someone invading there. In fact Comradejakorps did the same thing to me in one of our games.

I think it is different when someone manipulates a Rule for an unintended purpose; but here it was clearly intended by the Game Designer that those hexes could be invaded.

[stjeand]

It could just be that hexes on the inside of a lake just become beaches for the look. Maybe that was all that was intended.
I doubt it was intended that transports could travel up a river to get to "beaches".

That is why we play...to catch things like this that are missed...


ComadrejaKorp is a pro at finding these...disabling mines that should take months to bypass...travelling up rivers to invade inland.
Dropped a swarm of French paratroopers in heart of the German fatherland...

All can be done and some say you should not...others say you should.


Game designers can't find every gamey exploit no matter what they test...some are just missed and that is part of what we are here for.

I like finding the issues and getting them fixed. Not a fan of being beaten by them but to each their own.

[ComadrejaKorp]

Just to clarify, when I perform a maneuver I always believe that this maneuver is legal, possible and realistic.

When an opponent explains to me the reasons why he believes that this maneuver is not legal, sometimes I agree and sometimes not, but I never use it again, even if I think it is legal.

For this reason I always accept any house rule, my main objective is not victory, I want me and my rival to have a good time!

[OldCrowBalthazor]

ORIGINAL: ComadrejaKorp

My sincere apologies to any rival who was offended when I disembarked here, I never received a formal complaint, I was unaware that it was not possible.

I appreciate the history lessons, not so much the morality ones.

Hey, @ComadrejaKorp..I apologize to you and every one one else on this thread. I also been finding bugs and helping solve potential gamey exploits with the SC-WW1 series for the last year and a half..and have the patch credits to prove it. I just recently found the time to get in deep with this great game in SP only...and when I saw the image of the amphib landing through a diked or flooded Zuider Zee...I jumped.

To you ComadrejaKorp...I meant no offence..and I will get off my high horse. I'm not the one to give morality lessons, being that I am RL rather immoral my self, if not a bit deviant.

cheers bro.

[ComadrejaKorp]

cheers bro.

Thank you for your words, I am not so easily offended, no apologies are necessary, I like players who take the game seriously and help improve it, I think I do it too, although unintentionally.

You can correct me whenever you want, I am delighted to learn from you, if one day I can help you with something I will definitely do it.

[ncc1701e]

Alvaro,

Did you consider adding a minefield in hex 145,61? Don't you think it will close the Ijsselmeer?

Thanks

[Lascar]

Panzermike's Scorched Earth mod fixed that by adding a dike, so that ships cannot enter the Isselmeer and land units cannot attack across it. A simple and realistic solution.