Scotland 1940

[Simon Edmonds]

I don't know if this has been done as a scenario or not. When the Germans did Norway in 1940 what was stopping them from attacking Scotland instead?

[golden delicious]

External reality?

There's a lot of problems with this. I'll just list off the obvious ones, by sea, air and land:
1) The Home Fleet was based at Scapa Flow, with a major squadron at Rosyth. From Scapa to the nearest point on the Norwegian coast is a good couple of hundred miles, and to operate off locations like Trondheim and Narvik put the Royal Navy a long way from their bases. As it was, the Norwegian campaign effectively crippled the Kriegsmarine as the Navy was able to take out a goodly number of major units for some losses of its own. Shift the action to the Navy's doorstep and it'll be a bloodbath. Then you also have to consider that the British plan to mine Norwegian coastal waters wasn't yet in effect when the Germans landed: the major Scottish ports had been mined at the war's outset to prevent incursions by U-Boats.

2) The Germans used airborne forces to essentially block out a corridor of airfields all the way up to Trondheim: Denmark was invaded to provide bases to support operations in Norway. Fighter cover was very rapidly available all the way up to Trondheim, and in any case there were no enemy fighter bases, so bombers could operate unescorted. By contrast, there are no German bases even in single-engined fighter ferry range of the nearest airfield in Scotland, whilst the RAF has masses of fighter bases (and quite a lot of fighters, since only a few squadrons were staged to France) in easy reach. No air cover except unescorted bombers. This rather exacerbates 1), as the Royal Navy is going to operate more or less with impunity anywhere within 100 miles of an RAF base

3) Norway was unmobilised, and even at full strength the Norwegian army was only a few tens of thousands strong. Moreover, the last war that Norway had fought was in support of Napoleon, and the army's main purpose was to protect the mountain passes in case of an invasion from Sweden. By contrast, Britain had by this point been conscripting for over a year and had more than two dozen divisions in various stages of organisation and equipment. Although these troops were not ready to be sent to France to face the full might of the Wehrmacht, they're going to make short work of the really very modest forces Germany was able to deploy to Norway. You can forget about paratroopers, too: Borkum to Berwick is over 600km, well outside the range of the Ju-52

One could look at it this way: in the First World War, when the Germans possessed a fleet which started to approach the Home Fleet in size, and where airpower was not an issue, the Germans never even considered mounting such an operation (though various authors certainly entertained it- see Riddle of the Sands) because it would have been an impossibility. In 1940, the German fleet is miniscule compared to the Royal Navy, and air power makes operating outside ones own fighter umbrella a really bad idea.

[Lobster]

Not to mention they had to ensure the security of the raw materials provided from Norway to further the war effort.

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Not to mention they had to ensure the security of the raw materials provided from Norway to further the war effort.

Well;
1) if Britain was knocked out of the war, that'd be irrelevant
2) as it was, the whole Narvik thing was a huge red herring. By the time the port was opened up by the Germans, they'd already overrun the iron mines in Pas de Calais and Alsace, which are much more productive than those in northern Sweden. Of course in April 1940 the Germans didn't know that France would be beaten in six weeks.

[Simon Edmonds]

Was there any reason the iron couldn't be railed south through Sweden. I mean what if the allies had successfully stopped iron being shipped through Narvik. Looking at the period maps the Swedish had the infrastructure to do it.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Simon Edmonds

Was there any reason the iron couldn't be railed south through Sweden. I mean what if the allies had successfully stopped iron being shipped through Narvik. Looking at the period maps the Swedish had the infrastructure to do it.

As I understand it, that was exactly what they did for 3/4 of the year. But, in the winter, the Baltic froze over. That's why they had to rail it to Narvik and ship it from there to Germany. So...loss of access to Narvik would cost them 1/4 of Sweden's annual production.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: Simon Edmonds

Was there any reason the iron couldn't be railed south through Sweden. I mean what if the allies had successfully stopped iron being shipped through Narvik. Looking at the period maps the Swedish had the infrastructure to do it.

November 1939 the Allies had planned to seize the Swedish iron mines and the ports in Norway it was shipped from when the Soviet Union attacked Finland in what became known as the Winter War to deny Germany the iron.

Wiki:
"The plan was to get Norwegian and Swedish permission to send an expeditionary force to Finland across northern Norway and Sweden, ostensibly to help the Finns. But once in place, they were to proceed to take control of the harbours and the iron ore mines, occupying cities such as Gävle and Luleå and denying German access to the Swedish iron ore. In this way, an unsuspecting Norway and Sweden would be presented with a fait accompli. Realizing this danger, however, and the consequent possibility of Allied or German occupation and of the war being waged on their territory, both the Swedes and the Norwegians refused to allow this proposal."

Sooo...the Allies were going to go ahead with a semi peaceful invasion (like an invasion is peaceful at all [:D]) The Germans had their own plan to secure the iron, ports and airbases and it involved invading only Norway and Denmark. This invasion would deny any Allied ambitions to secure airbases in Norway and bottle up the Germans at the Skagerrak.

The German plan was set for 9 April. The Allied plan was set for 5 April but was delayed until 8 April at which time mines would be laid in Norwegian territorial waters to force German ships into the open sea where the Royal Navy could deal with them. The mines got laid but the Germans invaded.

Don't forget about the nickel mines in the north of Norway.

You should read up on the whole thing. Fairly convoluted cloak and dagger stuff. [:D]

Oh, and the heavy water, don't forget the heavy water. More cloak and dagger stuff. [;)]