Taming the Tiger or Slaying the Bear......loki100 (Axis) vs Speedy (SU)

[Speedysteve]

Random question relating to the current turn....I think I know the answer but as a teacher told me when I was 13 "no question is a stupid question"....with Sorge doing his good work I assume as 'Enhanced TB' is off the logical reinforcement flow from FE arrives indicated by the reinforcement screen BUT if 'enhanced TB' was on would all movements from the TB be disabled and I'd need to manipulate it all manually?

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

Since the Axis are gloating at their production I present to you the glorious Soviet view...look at that shiny oil there Herr Loki[8D]
...

well - would be more useful if you'd loan me a few more trucks, its not as if you are using them at the moment?

Well if you'd let me build some Tank and Mechanised Corps (apparently uncle Joe says "Calm down Speedyevsky I'll get to those formations in the coming years") I'd use them!

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

As September sees it's way in we're hopeful of holding the Axis enemy and ultimately laying waste to them.....there wasn't a lot to report in the North and Center....well except the loss of thousands of men, artillery and tanks....my men continue to dig in, learn how to use a rifle and learn which lever fires the tank gun....

In the South it's utter chaos....I urged my men to attack where they could though and they forced a German Motorised Rgt back by 20 miles and sent some silly Hungarian troops running....hurrah....all's looking up!

Do you try and save CPP for defense?

Never heard of CPP[&:]

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

As September sees it's way in we're hopeful of holding the Axis enemy and ultimately laying waste to them.....there wasn't a lot to report in the North and Center....well except the loss of thousands of men, artillery and tanks....my men continue to dig in, learn how to use a rifle and learn which lever fires the tank gun....

In the South it's utter chaos....I urged my men to attack where they could though and they forced a German Motorised Rgt back by 20 miles and sent some silly Hungarian troops running....hurrah....all's looking up!

Do you try and save CPP for defense?

[:'(]

In all honesty yes. I try to move my units as little as possible, create depth so those in lines 2/3 have higher CPP which is useful a stronger defence or counter attacks etc. This applies to the North and Center.....the South is a parallel universe of a mess[;)]

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

As September sees it's way in we're hopeful of holding the Axis enemy and ultimately laying waste to them.....there wasn't a lot to report in the North and Center....well except the loss of thousands of men, artillery and tanks....my men continue to dig in, learn how to use a rifle and learn which lever fires the tank gun....

In the South it's utter chaos....I urged my men to attack where they could though and they forced a German Motorised Rgt back by 20 miles and sent some silly Hungarian troops running....hurrah....all's looking up!

Do you try and save CPP for defense?

[:'(]

In all honesty yes. I try to move my units as little as possible, create depth so those in lines 2/3 have higher CPP which is useful a stronger defence or counter attacks etc. This applies to the North and Center.....the South is a parallel universe of a mess[;)]

Nice. But, if Loki gets a rolling grind going might be difficult to keep up.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

Random question relating to the current turn....I think I know the answer but as a teacher told me when I was 13 "no question is a stupid question"....with Sorge doing his good work I assume as 'Enhanced TB' is off the logical reinforcement flow from FE arrives indicated by the reinforcement screen BUT if 'enhanced TB' was on would all movements from the TB be disabled and I'd need to manipulate it all manually?
..

no by default units retain all their scripted moves even with enhanced control.

the problem is if you cancel one move for a given unit, you cancel them all - which can cause problems with those formations that wandered around a lot as those later moves won't happen and you can dip below the requirements due to missed transfers

[Speedysteve]

Ah ok. Thanks

Another question - do the Coast Art units (such as at Sevastapol) have any meaningful affect in game or worth just disbanding?

[loki100]

they should

I think they operate as usual heavy artillery - so long range, quite destructive but very low rate of fire

cannae think why you are asking [8D]

[Speedysteve]

Come closer and you’ll find out [;)]

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

Come closer and you’ll find out [;)]

To use the vernacular ... 'aye right'

[loki100]

T13 – 14 September 1941

The bad boys are back, all this bombing and attacking (is that not a Clash song?)



Almost as bad here.



And further evidence of bias against Hungarians and a willingness to pocket Slovakians.



The weather is now light rain/light mud pretty much everywhere.

Bit of logistics chat – decided to leave the Ukraine FBD at Kirovgrad for a turn. Same logic as previously reported, this will then fill up and I can pull the freight forward into the next set of depots in a turn or two – I'm so far ahead of the rail line that a bit more won't hurt.

The Rumanian FBD converts to off map SU next turn, but it finished by repairing the rails to Kherson – despite my T9/10 errors. Not a bad rail head for this sector.

Smolensk is now set up as a super depot.

I have 2 rail lines running from Riga to Pskov.

So using the '8' key here is an overview.

Not surprisingly the bulk of AGN is drawing from Pskov, 16A from Velikie-Luki. At the moment, Vitebsk is the core for the northern part of AGC. It was a super-depot for some turns and its now shedding the stored freight.



The Ukraine is a bit more of a guddle. Mainly as I've rarely created super-depots (here I do prefer to try and keep the rail head moving) there are some less than ideal supply traces. Guess the best that can be said is it indicates the importance of the Black Sea ports but that is really hurting my mobility.

To improve on this, the second AGC FBD is creating a link from Gomel, I'll connect that to Kiev and then take it towards Kharkov.

Do need to bring this under control before the heavy mud arrives.



AGN, not much happened, not least my build up was disrupted but took another rail hex and started to clear out the Soviet incursion on my side of the Volkhov. Had a failed infantry attack.

16A is creating a defensive line already.



AGC, not much happened, decided a turn of CPP gain was better than grinding forward. 4A sector is just a case of advancing, trying to do this with an eye to CPP retention.



Bit of an odd sector with a strung out 6A covering the southern flank.



Took Kharkov, it only had a single rifle division defending so no real gain to constructing a pocket – in fact I've rather forgotten what a pocket looks like.



Wee peak at the Crimea. 11A is well rested so stomped on the Soviet defensive line at the entrance and pushed on – given the wider situation, my instinct is to go for Sevastopol in 1941 but I'll see what the level of resistance is. This area can be a problem for the Soviets to supply with the rail links cut.



Losses, not really content with the relatively low hit on the Red Army but I didn't attack much.



Air losses. Not much to report.



OOB – main thing is worrying to see the Soviet reserves building up



But they are still relatively short of manpower in their pool.



Spent a fair bit of AP on a numpty reduction programme, unfortunately 6A remains a haven for complete idiots.

[Speedysteve]

T13

This week was also a relatively quiet one from the Soviet side. Trenches continue to be dug and men bought to the front. Prayers for more rain continue.

A couple of attacks failed near Leningrad. The lone success reported this week was near Vyazma throwing back the German 7th Tank Division near Vyazma...extra vodka was issued. Even more was issued to the VVS involved....it may have contributed to losses from what I hear....

[Speedysteve]

I also appointed a further friend to a Front command. This concludes the 1st phase of my Nincompoop Replacement Program....Next step is the crucial Army commands....

[loki100]

T14 – 21 September 1941

So .. very bad things

at least they paid a high price for damaging my tanks (I really should have just pulled back from that hex) – not least some were destroyed by Mig-3s flopping out of the sky and crashing into them. The LW is told to be more careful next time.



Didn't do much here ...



Logistics watch – by far the most exciting part of the game.

I think we can call Smolensk a success – though that rail move penalty is eye-watering (remember its /6 of what was used last turn). Can't think why that could have happened?



So much supply in the Smolensk-Minsk sector that even Gomel has enough.



And its sausages and beer for AGS too.



To the business. As above, a lot of attacks by both sides at Leningrad. The freshly redeployed LVII Pzr made all the difference (I really shouldn't have had that side trip).

My infantry are starting to clean out Soviet salients on the Volkhov and I think I'll reach Lake Ladoga next turn.

The Soviets took really heavy losses (something like 40,000) which is a real problem for them here. I know from experience its very hard to fit out wrecked formations on this sector, even better routed stuff can't be sent to the reserve so for the moment, their resources are finite and diminishing.



Quick jump to the south. I have a rather ambitious idea and want to see what I can manage with PG1 before doing much with AGC.

Given that the Soviets have finally abandoned that long salient to Chernigov, I can solve my infantry shortage. 4A redeploys towards Bryansk and 6A can screen the eastern flank of PG1. 17A mostly concentrates on Stalino, but that leaves me PG1 relatively free.

So struck north, could mostly get away with hasty attacks (a few failed), Belgorod fell easily.

At the very least this sets an odd retreat path for the Soviet units to the west, they certainly can't shore up their lines east of Kharkov and they are going to pick up a lot of fatigue as they keep moving.



Dombas, 17A moving up keeping its CPP. XXXXVIII Pzr Corps has recovered so swung it north of the Donets, the threat may encourage a weakening of the Soviet line anchored on Stalino.



Crimea, 11A dismantles the forces guarding the entrance, its well rested and even not on assualt has high CPP. At the moment, this is as much a killing zone as a serious attempt at Sevastopol – like Leningrad this is another spot where the Soviets really struggle to refit trashed formations.



All of which was fun, but essentially a diversion from deciding what to do with AGC.

I need to do something to shake up the Soviet defences here (or indeed do nothing is a valid option).
One approach is to use PG2 and 3 to try for an encirclement based on Vyazma, I have high mobility but am a bit short of combat power. The other is to send PG2 south, the fantasy is a grand link up with PG1, the more feasible outcome is it will yield me the Orel-Kursk sector.

In the end, the Soviet deployment left my decision unclear. 3 PG's infantry made substantial gains at Vyazma, the trick of attack and stop (so they are out of ZoC) means I can regain a lot of CPP.

Southern wing of 3PG made enough gains to threaten an encirclement – at worst I might force that salient to pull back – its weakly screened and starting to worry me.

2 PG had to deal with a strong multi-line defense but it is clear of the worst terrain. Its not badly placed for Kaluga or to go south towards Orel.

I guess if I don't know what I am going to do, then neither do the Soviets?



Whatever else happened this turn, the loss ratio improved.



Fairly heavy air losses – I'm now more willing to use the LW as it is going to be of little value come mid-October. By the time it comes back into use, I'll mostly have a new generation of planes in any case.



Despite my efforts, Soviet manpower pool is recovering a little.



And a view on the VP screen. My absolute goal is now achieved (Jan HWM score), Orel is not going to yield any time bonus (if it falls at all), Kursk and Stalino should. Not at all sure over Rzhev or Kalinin (or Rostov for that matter), but lets say a minimum of +40 before I need to think about being defensive.

Being somewhat pessimistic, that will also get me over the October 42 HWM.



Worth mentioning here – don't take something (esp if you have missed the +6) that you can't guarentee to hold onto. The Soviet +6 time bonus is deducted from your score. So at worst you come out neutral but if you gained less than 16 you can be in deficit. This is less important for Rostov and Kalinin as both are scheduled for a very quick transition but is affecting how I regard say Orel.

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: loki100
And its sausages and beer for AGS too.

You need Guderian's Sausage Marker!

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Nix77

ORIGINAL: loki100
And its sausages and beer for AGS too.

You need Guderian's Sausage Marker!

I am sooo tempted to mod the unit insignia for PG2 [;)]

[loki100]

T15 – 28 September 1941

So, the usual listing of underhand tricks and other bad things

A lot of quite unneccessary attacking



Even here they were up to it



And it didn't stop there.



All in all, not much happened in my turn. 17A moves up to assault Stalino. In the Crimea the Soviets have pulled back.



Only reason I'm making any gains here is the Soviet formations are so weak.



Vyazma fell, dreams of wandering the Steppes are put on hold for more pragmatic goals.



Still some gains here. Again Soviet units are often collapsing and with the rails badly disrupted it may be there is too much allocated S/W of the city.



Given the nature of that turn, surprised that Soviet losses were so high.



Army supply situation is ok, given the wider situation.



VP situation has gone bad fairly quickly. Guess that Stalino and Kursk are still on offer, really not sure beyond that.

Strong feeling of having made a real mess of the last 3-4 turns.

[loki100]

T16 – 5 October 1941

Very conscious of time and weather. Still light rains/light mud and that should last into next week.

My feeling is I need to generate some winter lines and that means eliminating salients to shorten the front and thinking about defensive lines. In the meantime the Soviets were, by their terms, fairly well behaved apart from clearly being prejudiced against Italians:



And very keen to bomb Rumanians.



They clearly don't respect the police either.



Been reinforcing this Theatre – mainly with stuff like the Rumanian cavalry brigades that are vulnerable to shatters. Note this doesn't stop the partisan event firing, but it does reduce the intensity of the resulting interdiction.



As noted in the introduction, my main goal was going to be salient reduction and there were three target areas.

So for AGN it is the salient south of the Neva. Life will be far easier if I can anchor my defensive line on the river and the urban regions. Helped a little with a Soviet retreat, looking at the soft factors they have (predictably) real supply problems. In a way I don't want them to rout, I want them to retreat, weakened into the Leningrad pocket.

Cut the last rail link to the city.

18A is no longer on assault mode, I can put formations into PG4 if I want to regain CPP, its now time to dig holes in the ground.



The second was south of the Oka. This has really been worrying me so was quite glad to see a voluntary retreat. PG2 has disengaged, a reinforced PG3 made some useful gains and handed out a lot of damage.



Final one was the real problem SW of Kursk. Again, fortunately the Soviets are pulling back but this should allow me to deploy 6A east of Kharkov and concentrate 4A around Bryansk.

Only use 1 Pzr Corps here – that cluster of Soviet units to the east mostly appear to be fairly weak.



Stalino captured – again most of the Soviet formations here appear to be fairly weak.

Not shown but 11A and 4Ru A pushing into the Crimea – I'm in no particular hurry over Sevastopol so this is a spoling operation but we'll see what the Soviets do in response. Quite content to fall back to the Sivash to save formations and treat this as a Spring 1942 operation.



Losses.



Air Losses.



OOB. Given what is coming, 1,000 damaged tanks is not great at this stage of the war.



Usual problem – I have manpower just can't get into the combat formations.

[loki100]

T17 – 12 October 1941

For this turn weather stays light rain/mud, looks like heavy rain at Leningrad but maybe not across the rest of the front.

Must say their attempts to do something bad this turn were pretty limp – I guess they have to do the best they can?



So given the weather estimate a bit of a tidying up turn at Leningrad. Really nice to see all those routed units end up behind the city, where they can eat food and take an age to recover their losses,

I was a bit surprised to find so much air base building behind the Volkhov but I guess they will come in useful later on.

Depot system here is pretty good, the FBD is now repairing back to Pskov and will create a winter super-depot there.



So a huge amount of dithering here. PG3 is easy, I may or may not take Rzhev but there is a chance to do serious damage. After a lot of messing around, ended up leaving PG2 unmoved.

Have a number of advanced depots but Smolensk is returned to being a super-depot.

I have a wider goal of optimising the amount of supply roughly in each critical sector rather than worrying too much about depots up at the front lines.



So cut in behind Kursk – one reason for the indecision re PG2 is the chance to drive south via Orel still exists. Good thing is starting to slot the formations into their planned defensive positions.

One goal here, and into November is to wreck the regional rail net as much as I can.



Fair bit of action in the Dombas, I'm not particularly aiming for Rostov but I now want to hold Stalino – which means some depth.



Much the same in the Crimea – this is now a spoiling operation not a serious attempt to take Sevastopol.



Northern logistics system, mostly working fairly well.



Southern tier is a lot better – Dnepropetrovsk is the regional super-depot, I'll connect to Kharkov by mid-November.



Loss ratio is not bad – mainly from the Leningrad battles where poorly supplied (suspect low TOE) Soviet formations often lose badly.



Some wider pts – goal now is a short front line in advance of the things I want to hold. Each Pzr group has shed a corps with its weakest formations to start refitting – hopefully I can rotate these back into the line and pull out something else for the early winter.

[loki100]

T18 – 19 October 1941

For once my weather report was pretty accurate. Heavy rain/heavy mud around Leningrad, still only light rain over most of the front. This is forecast to carry into next turn – but I basically don't believe it.

So bad things they did list indicates that a bit of rain doesn't stop the VVS.



Couple of routed units, all that Soviet cavalry is a pain, its easy to rout etc but they also can cut off ill-secured salients.



And the Rumanian airforce emulates a chocolate ... teapot.



On the other hand, supply for AGS promises to improve. Each AG now has a super-depot in place so I only now have one mobile FBD.

Overall truck situation is 299k/318k in unit and 81k being repaired. The Soviets have kindly given me 20k but that doesn't cover the 46k I've managed to lose.



Practically, the only active sector was the grandly named Orel-Kursk pocket (may as well call it something). Handy to gain Bryansk and the relatively poor terrain on that sector.



Hinge between AGC/N and some rather useful shortening of the line on critical sectors – and releasing units to refit.



Some limited gains in the Dombas, mainly to either grab the urban centres or to further damage already weakened formations.

Similar approach in the Crimea.



OOB, size of the Soviet reserve is a concern, they will be easily over 4m come late December.



Army supply position fairly dire, seem to have lost an awful lot of stuff and almost no replacements reaching the front. Hopefully the new depot system helps with this.



Clearly all my replacements have decided to stay in Germany for an extended Christmas break. Well at least they can't get frostbite there.