Red River of Blood - Laits (G) vs HLYA (S)

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 2

Ground Phase

Minsk is LIBERATED!!!! Next Berlin! I destroyed a depot which does confirm that the rail is coming this way. With 7 MP's left I think I will also move 1 hex NW to convert to Soviet territory the dual track in the swamp. That should at least cost a few more MP's to convert next turn.

****Personally I don't think this should be able to be done. But needs to be brought out so the community can discuss. ****

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 2

Ground Phase

Hmmmm, I am curious now if I should do something on that lines in the North Motorizing Inf divisions. Let me think about it. In the meantime I am going to work on the shattered south units

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 2

Ground Phase

One last quick thought before moving to the south. The areas in yellow are points of penetration. I do have an infantry, not shown in photo, with high MP's which could basically cut off the leading PZ's if the ZoC of the Germans are not up to par. Now I have to think if I want to do that or not. Could turn out to be pure suicide Bleh. Moving to the South and will come back to this.


I REALLY REALLY REALLY wish I had recon'd this area now Gosh darn it!

[Laits]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Turn 2

Ground Phase

Minsk is LIBERATED!!!! Next Berlin! I destroyed a depot which does confirm that the rail is coming this way. With 7 MP's left I think I will also move 1 hex NW to convert to Soviet territory the dual track in the swamp. That should at least cost a few more MP's to convert next turn.

****Personally I don't think this should be able to be done. But needs to be brought out so the community can discuss. ****

Excellent! I've never seen that kind of suicide attack before! Got to be cautious in the future! [;)]

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Laits

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Turn 2

Ground Phase

Minsk is LIBERATED!!!! Next Berlin! I destroyed a depot which does confirm that the rail is coming this way. With 7 MP's left I think I will also move 1 hex NW to convert to Soviet territory the dual track in the swamp. That should at least cost a few more MP's to convert next turn.

****Personally I don't think this should be able to be done. But needs to be brought out so the community can discuss. ****

Excellent! I've never seen that kind of suicide attack before! Got to be cautious in the future! [;)]

I really think there should be a conversation about this since I can virtually harass the Germans at the Cost of a few AP's, trucks, and Soviet Division(s). Of course the Germans can do this too. But maybe the powers to be designed it this way, I don't know. Technically you can motorize your highest Inf division & get 3 times the Movement Points.

Unless you have a solid line or very good ZoC's you can zip through easily. Think of it like having a ready made PZ division ready to exploit an opening where ever you have a high movement point infantry unit at. Should it really be this way? For instance I had 45 movement point unit with that infantry division when my Armor and Mech units can't even break 30 mp's on the 2nd turn. I can also use motorization to get out of ZoC locks as long as not surrounded. But to use it to go deep into enemy territory is another thing.

Think about this for a second, if the Germans Motorized hand picked 14, 15, or 16 mp infantry divisions on the Map in key locations where your Panzer's are out of fuel with less than 20 MP's. Those inf divisions would all have over 40 some MP's and be used for exploitation. But maybe I am missing something.

[Nix77]

I've been thinking the same, motorizing inf division seems a bit cheesy tactic.

A 16 MP rifle division can motorize and get 48MP, allowing it to make 3 deliberate attacks without suffering any combat penalties (afaik?), making this kind of motorized offensive an effective tool to drain MP and CPP from the opposition. The mobile capacity of these temporary motorizations is maybe too effective, in comparison to dedicated motorized formations.

Those divisions should require and be restrained by fuel, and the motorization should perhaps happen after next logistics phase. Soviet motorized infantry (at least) should have same restrictions as regular Soviet mech and tank divisions.

One option is to give these "truck divisions" a hefty MP penalty when moving in ZOC, enemy or pending hexes.

EDIT: They actually already get +1MP penalty in enemy hexes, not sure if that's enough? Temporary motorization also automagically and immediately fulfills the division's fuel need, which makes this option so powerful.

[Laits]

ORIGINAL: Nix77

I've been thinking the same, motorizing inf division seems a bit cheesy tactic.

A 16 MP rifle division can motorize and get 48MP, allowing it to make 3 deliberate attacks without suffering any combat penalties (afaik?), making this kind of motorized offensive an effective tool to drain MP and CPP from the opposition. The mobile capacity of these temporary motorizations is maybe too effective, in comparison to dedicated motorized formations.

Those divisions should require and be restrained by fuel, and the motorization should perhaps happen after next logistics phase. Soviet motorized infantry (at least) should have same restrictions as regular Soviet mech and tank divisions.

One option is to give these "truck divisions" a hefty MP penalty when moving in ZOC, enemy or pending hexes.

EDIT: They actually already get +1MP penalty in enemy hexes, not sure if that's enough? Temporary motorization also automagically and immediately fulfills the division's fuel need, which makes this option so powerful.

I agree. It's a pain to see motorized inf division more efficient that the original one. Perhaps their MP should be aligned to the one of the tank/mot division.
One of the main consequences of this trick is that the German player has only the choice between being over-cautious (and so it will raise problems in the long term) or being constantly harassed by hidden motorized formations.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Laits

ORIGINAL: Nix77

I've been thinking the same, motorizing inf division seems a bit cheesy tactic.

A 16 MP rifle division can motorize and get 48MP, allowing it to make 3 deliberate attacks without suffering any combat penalties (afaik?), making this kind of motorized offensive an effective tool to drain MP and CPP from the opposition. The mobile capacity of these temporary motorizations is maybe too effective, in comparison to dedicated motorized formations.

Those divisions should require and be restrained by fuel, and the motorization should perhaps happen after next logistics phase. Soviet motorized infantry (at least) should have same restrictions as regular Soviet mech and tank divisions.

One option is to give these "truck divisions" a hefty MP penalty when moving in ZOC, enemy or pending hexes.

EDIT: They actually already get +1MP penalty in enemy hexes, not sure if that's enough? Temporary motorization also automagically and immediately fulfills the division's fuel need, which makes this option so powerful.

I agree. It's a pain to see motorized inf division more efficient that the original one. Perhaps their MP should be aligned to the one of the tank/mot division.
One of the main consequences of this trick is that the German player has only the choice between being over-cautious (and so it will raise problems in the long term) or being constantly harassed by hidden motorized formations.

On demand motorization is "FAR" too powerful. Even motorizing a Soviet division to get out of a semi closed pocket seems kind of wrong to me. I am going to re-frame from using motorization for any more exploitation into enemy territory in our game. I will also post a link to this in the War Room and maybe more lookers to see what they think. Personally I think it is broken unless someone can tell me it was an intentional design.

[Laits]

It definitly deserve a fix. Less MPs (like the tank div) and some MP penalties in EZOC could be a solution. Raising the admin point cost could, also be good. 3 AD for a full strength division is not that expensive.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Laits

It definitly deserve a fix. Less MPs (like the tank div) and some MP penalties in EZOC could be a solution. Raising the admin point cost could, also be good. 3 AD for a full strength division is not that expensive.

I concur it needs a fix and breaks everything this game is about. My post and this AAR has really not drawn any attention to it but once Seminole brings out the moves in his game I am sure it will. I just did not want to do that in our game.