AIR SUPPLY MISSIONS: Make escorts based close to transport supply drop destination available

[Darojax]

Currently it's only possible to assign escorts if they are within range of the staging base (where supplies are picked up from), which can be quite far away from where fighters are normally based (closer to the front line). Would it not be more practical and realistic if it was possible to assign escorts based on being within range of any part of the transport flight path, especially the destination area, which obviously is also where they more realistically will be needed. Escorts shouldn't have to join the transports at the staging base, they should be able to join much later in the flight plan.

As it is now it seem very difficult to provide escorts for any air transport missions, you'd have to put up an air superiority directive, which seems like a workaround and not a solution.

Cheers

D

[xhoel]

This is a great idea! +1

[Mehring]

The issue flows, I think, from the difficulty in shifting supplies forward to army group rear area depots in 1941. I'm not sure the logistics system can accommodate this or if such depots were historical. From my own experience, the only AG capable of building up stocks to facilitate escorted air supply has been AGN, with its Baltic ports set to import.

[Mehring]

The issue flows, I think, from the difficulty in shifting supplies forward to army group rear area depots in 1941. I'm not sure the logistics system can accommodate this or if such depots were historical. From my own experience, the only AG capable of building up stocks to facilitate escorted air supply has been AGN, with its Baltic ports set to import.

[Hardradi]

Has anyone actually flown a supply drop to another airport with fighter escort?

From what I can see there is some sort of difference in assigning escorts when you compare a freight transfer with a unit transfer. With the freight transfer no fighter escorts but with the unit transfer the option is available. Something is not right here. My transports have been getting hammered even though I have fighters who can cover. I just never get the option to bring them along. Compare that to a regimental transfer I did, where fighter cover was available.

[Joel Billings]

I've done it. Perhaps the issue is the aircraft can't reach the stage base and the final drop target, and thus are not shown on the list to assign to the mission? Would need to see a save.

[Hardradi]

Thanks for the reply. I put together a whole series of screenshots showing that in my particular situation the escorts will only fly with unit transfer but not freight drops.

However, I can see in M60A3TTS's AAR that he has Mig-3's with his Li-2s dropping freight. So for some reason mine will not fly. I do not have a save because its a server game.

[DarenMoss]

Even Air Superiority isn't guaranteed. Had the situation where I was flying supply into the main base for AGC Ftrs. Over 100 ME109s at the base with less than 40% usage. Flew multiple resupply missions, 1st mission was a disaster, no German fighters showed up and 27 JU52s shot-down over the base, next mission 60+ ME109s showed up and all 48 Sov Ftrs shot down. Next mission, 12 ME109s showed up, 26 Sov Ftrs shot down but remainder got through and another dozen JU52s shot down. You would think with a 100 Ftrs based there they would be able to meet up with the JU52s and escort them back to their own base!

[Mehring]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I've done it. Perhaps the issue is the aircraft can't reach the stage base and the final drop target, and thus are not shown on the list to assign to the mission? Would need to see a save.

Exactly, because all the stockpiles are either in Poland, Romania, or Baltic ports set to import. towards the end of summer 41 onwards I don't see how you can airlift supplies to the centre or south fronts at all, let alone with escorts.

[Hardradi]

ORIGINAL: Mehring

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I've done it. Perhaps the issue is the aircraft can't reach the stage base and the final drop target, and thus are not shown on the list to assign to the mission? Would need to see a save.

Exactly, because all the stockpiles are either in Poland, Romania, or Baltic ports set to import. towards the end of summer 41 onwards I don't see how you can airlift supplies to the centre or south fronts at all, let alone with escorts.

You can build up supplies in the interior depots by "pulsing" the depot system. This can flush stored supplies in the rear forward. Or you could try using a super depot. This should allow you to run air freight missions from depots with airfields in the interior.

You can also do a supply drop in two stages, first to an interim airfield and then to the final one. This is within the same turn.

[Mehring]

ORIGINAL: Hardradi

ORIGINAL: Mehring

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I've done it. Perhaps the issue is the aircraft can't reach the stage base and the final drop target, and thus are not shown on the list to assign to the mission? Would need to see a save.

Exactly, because all the stockpiles are either in Poland, Romania, or Baltic ports set to import. towards the end of summer 41 onwards I don't see how you can airlift supplies to the centre or south fronts at all, let alone with escorts.

You can build up supplies in the interior depots by "pulsing" the depot system. This can flush stored supplies in the rear forward. Or you could try using a super depot. This should allow you to run air freight missions from depots with airfields in the interior.

You can also do a supply drop in two stages, first to an interim airfield and then to the final one. This is within the same turn.

What exactly do you mean by "pulsing the system?" I can set a depot anywhere on the map to priority 4 but if it's not directly supplying units, it draws nothing. On the other hand, a priority 2 depot will supply units hundreds of miles away if the game decides that such a unit wants their supplies- units set to medium priority, and this actually wastes supply, trucks and reduces combat values. Without being able to regulate the distance at which a unit will draw supplies you either deplete it through lack of supply or through attempting supply. I don't get it yet.

[Hardradi]

I think carlkay58 is the man on 'pulsing'. You need to have a look at his AAR's.

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

T02 Supply Discussion:

The last game and AAR I did my usual supply depot in every dot along the rails with priority 4 until I tuned the network later in the war (about the time the rains came). This generated a lot of discussions with additional discussions on the logistics system from other sources because it is a difficult but very important portion of the game. Last game was, quite frankly, the first time since WitW that I really concentrated and thought a lot on how the logistics works. I found that the system of a priority 4 depot in every dot along the repaired rails worked great in WitW. But the transition to the east brings up a few differences along with small changes in how the logisitics is done. So I am trying some different ideas.

1) Building a depot where there is no existing one costs resources - not only the supplies necessary but also the committing of construction units. Neither of these are in great quantities for the Axis.

2) I will be building depots on any existing railyard this game. I will not start by building railyards on such a scale as I have in previous games.

3) This is countered by how the AI builds depots - basically in every dot on a rail line on the map. So as I advance I will have Soviet railyards in every dot on the rail. I will share what criteria I will use for depots when I come up with it.

4) I started to use a 'pulse' system of supply transferring in my last AAR. This looked like it worked pretty well. I will be using a similar system in this game while trying to refine the theory. Essentially this is taking a system of large railyard depots and using the Supply Priorities to 'pulse' supplies down the line. Switching depots between 4 (to fill it up) and then down to 1 (to pulse the supplies down the line). With using the high level HQs on these depots I was able to fill some of them up to almost full in one turn and then draw it all down the line the next. We shall see how it works overall.

My experience is limited. Recently in my Operation Typhoon game my Vyazma depot was the one of the front line and not accumulating any supplies. This was also my forward air base, so I wanted supplies in there so I could get fighter cover with my air freight drops. Behind it several of the rearward depots were accumulating stores, so I dropped their priority and they pushed stores through to Vyazma. I did it slowly over two turns, like a 'pulse'.

[Mehring]

ORIGINAL: Hardradi

My experience is limited. Recently in my Operation Typhoon game my Vyazma depot was the one of the front line and not accumulating any supplies. This was also my forward air base, so I wanted supplies in there so I could get fighter cover with my air freight drops. Behind it several of the rearward depots were accumulating stores, so I dropped their priority and they pushed stores through to Vyazma. I did it slowly over two turns, like a 'pulse'.

Carlkay's the first person I saw use the term. I tried turning priority of depots in Poland and Germany to 0 hoping to unload them to Lvov, Minsk and perhaps several others set to 4. Nothing shipped to these depots as they weren't supplying any units. I find this every time. I was also moving around fleets of transports in the hope of finding a rear depot with an airstrip that could then shift supplies forward still. No luck there either. I ended up airlifting to Minsk in the centre and Kiev in the south, again, very small quantities as transports needed additional fuel tanks. Still scratching my head.

Returning to your two stage airlift, I guess that would work, but the amount of supply arriving at the end destination would, I suspect, be too small to make anything but the most local difference.

[Mehring]

Just tried an experiment, and made sure that the depots set to priority 4 were within 30 hexes of the homeland depots they were supposed to take supplies from. Sure enough, the supplies "pulsed."

[carlkay58]

Yes it does work. The question is how well or how smoothly. That is what I am testing in my second AAR.

[Mehring]

Another question is whether eligible supply trace is "as the crow flies" or by accessible rail/enterable hexes. I did notice in one game that supply imported to Feodosiya was supplying units around Stalino, apparently as the crow flies as the land route exceeded 30 hexes. I'm not sure how distance applies to rail freight yet.